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Elderly parents

Difficult sibling and caring for parent- boundaries without unnecessary upset?

39 replies

wannabedogwoman · 15/09/2025 17:33

I'd be very grateful to hear experience or advice about how to retain boundaries/avoid self sacrifice when trying to help care for my elderly, recently widowed mother alongside a very difficult sibling in a way that minimises upset to our mother.

For context, my mother can do most day to day tasks for herself at the moment but cannot leave the house without help and needs a lot of help with household admin etc. Due to chronic health conditions she will definitely need more help over time. Currently I am doing all of the time consuming tasks (including weekly shopping, booking/attending many medical appointments, keeping on track of medication, household admin and organising her affairs after my father's death). I don't live nearby so do some of this from home and arrange my work/family around visiting her for at least one full day a week. Brother lives close by and pops in to check on her every few days but will not do anything time consuming. This is difficult for me but is manageable and I am starting to persuade mum to agree to some small changes to make better use of time for all of us (eg medication/shopping deliveries, paying bills by DD etc).I have started some discussions about finding out about possible external help for if/when she needs it and trying to help her to see this in a positive light (eg- if we organise another way to have some of the mundane tasks done, I will have time to take her out instead) and we've also discussed making some changes at home to help her be more independent. There could easily be a solution that we could all work with, at least for a few years.

The problem is that my brother is used manipulating our parents in to doing whatever he says, including doing a lot to help him even when they were not really well enough. He now expects that I will do the same so as well as helping mum he is putting pressure on me to do more to help him (including committing to regular child care, running errands etc). He also gets annoyed about changes I have made to make things easier and frequently tells mum that she should not have external help as 'family should look after one-another'. He is verbally aggressive when I disagree with him or say no to his demands which upsets mum. I think that his idea is that if he makes things unpleasant for me and upsetting for mum I will have no choice but to do as he says. Obviously this is distressing for mum. Whenever he has an outburst in front of her he calls in to apologise the next day and tells her how hard his life is (just general parenting/adulting stuff that we have all had to do). She always calls me afterwards to plead his case and ask me to 'just consider' doing more for him because she just wishes she could make things easier for him and she wants us to all get along. I have tried reasoning with him when he is calm but he is adamant that he is only asking me to do 'what any normal sister would want to do'. He has hinted that his stance on having external care for mum is essentially a bargaining tool- if I do more for him he will 'let' her consider this. Quite frankly if it were not for mum I would have absolutely minimal contact. But for now I am trying to find a way to make things more pleasant for mum and get her the care she needs without having to agree to give up what small amount of time I have left to myself.

OP posts:
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wannabedogwoman · 26/09/2025 19:18

Thanks everyone. This has been really helpful. I'm sorry to hear that many of you have experienced similar.
@Labragoogle I understand what you mean about your own tendency to want to 'save' them instead of asserting boundaries. I did far too much of that when I was younger, having been encouraged by my parents to see myself of the good/strong/sensible one who would 'do the right thing' whilst Brother did stupid things and got in to trouble (always someone else's fault, of course). I distanced myself from this several decades ago when I realised I didn't want my children to see this, or the revolting way Brother treated me, as normal. I suspect that's part of the reason he is being so awkward; in his mind he feels I HAVE to engage now as Mum's on her own. Plus of course he doesn't have our parents to run after him now so he feels he has a vacancy for a support human.

@GloryGloria is quite right, I need to get on top of the dynamic with my mother but it's very difficult as she is so vulnerable at the moment and he knows exactly how to push her buttons. I'm hoping that agreeing with her that he has it hard, but repeating that I can't help will appease her until he gets the message.
@lizzyBennet08 yes, I think he is pretty unhinged, or maybe deluded is the right description as I think he firmly believes that he is hard done by and I should do as he says.

I will persevere!

OP posts:
GloryGloria · 26/09/2025 12:22

I think with people like this you should not be scared of them ‘kicking off’ - as they use the threat of volatility as a way to silence, coerce and dominate you.

Call their bluff - let them huff and puff - expect it like a blast of bad weather - it will blow over and be ready to take yourself physically out of the storm - somewhere sheltered - walk away, end the conversation etc - don’t lock horns or fight the storm it’s futile. Drop the rope to his game leave him standing alone in his own fluster whilst you remain calm and detached.

Know that you have the power and control in these interactions - you have chosen a way to respond - he is in constant wound up reactive mode - always spoiling for a fight - he is not in command of his physiology. Laugh at the unevolved fool and don’t be swayed by or play along with your DMs delusions - just give her a tinkly laugh, raised eyebrows and shocked smirk when she’s talking rubbish - she will get the jist without having to get confrontational.

Getting ahead of your current unhealthy dynamic with your DM will free up your energy, mind and perspective to deal more effectively with your DB.

lizzyBennet08 · 26/09/2025 11:47

Honestly op. He sounds a bit unhinged!

doodleZ1 · 26/09/2025 00:48

Handsomesoapdish · 22/09/2025 18:32

Using your example of organising 'Jane' the cleaner I would need to be there when Jane arrived (or Mum would not let her in). Mum would say that it was unnecessary as she could clean for herself. I would remind her of the cleaning she can't manage herself and tell her I won't be doing it for her but Jane could. That first time Jane would do an excellent job and Mum would agree it's a good idea. She would tell Brother how great Jane is but Brother would tell her she shouldn't have agreed to it. Who knows who Jane is or whether she can be trusted? Why am I 'throwing Mum's money away' paying Jane? If I'm refusing to clean for her now, he will do it. He had no idea she needed help with cleaning- why was he not involved in the discussion? If he'd known, he would have offered to clean for her. In fact he's hurt that she didn't ask him. Why could that be- are we trying to push him out? If I'm refusing to do a bit of cleaning for my lovely Mum then he'll just have to do it. He would make some half hearted attempt at cleaning for few weeks then make lots of excuses. Mum will not want to risk upsetting or annoying Brother so will try to manage doing it herself. When I notice and try to get Jane back in to clean Mum will resist, as it's only a short term issue and Brother will be able to do it for her soon, he promised. The expectation will be that I will do it 'just for now' rather than bring Jane in and make Brother feel ousted. She may even ask me not to tell Brother that I've had to do it, in case he feels upset or criticised for not being able to do the cleaning for now. This is all based on his reactions to similar issues. I am trying to stand my ground but on some things I can see I will have to allow it to go wrong before she will admit that help is needed.

Just on this type of interaction, you need to stop this type of interaction early with a boundary. I highly suggest you practice some role play on this. Chat GPT can be great for this.

There are opportunities for you to stop this discussion in its tracks and for you to leave when these conversations start up.

Manipulative people are experts in these types of interactions, the secret is becoming expert in stopping them. It really does work. When you get used to it they get utterly flummoxed by the change on your side of the interaction. The secret is emotional disengagement. All their little digs and passive aggressive comments go straight over your head.

My version is when they make the sly passive aggressive digs about you pulling back

“I hear your point of view but I see things differently, feel free to do what works for you and I’ll do what word for me.”

Then disengage.

If he comes back at you which he will, you repeat the above starting with

“this conversation is going around in circles now, as I said you do what you can do and I’ll do the same.”

And walk away.

I wish I had done that. Sounds simple but it never occurred to me at the time. We went round and round in circles, my brother banning me from mums house, telling me not to phone her either, telling me I wasn’t going to be invited to her funeral. It’s totally insane. My brother didn’t even live here, he parachuted in and took over. Mum lapped up her big son being on the scene. I was the selfish one and the disgrace of a daughter, according to my brother, even though I had done the caring for years and he lived at the other side of the country and visited once or twice a year. I will never forgive him.

Labragoogle · 25/09/2025 22:40

@wannabedogwomanthat is a great response! I need to find similar. It’s so easy to respond in the established ways - esp if you’re a guilt prone person as I am. Which is what they know only too well!

GloryGloria · 25/09/2025 11:24

There are lots of parts to grey rock. The main goal is for them to get bored and leave you alone.

They get an emotional kick out of the tension and conflict - they are just being contrary - they don’t actually care about the details eg the cleaner they just love an opportunity to lock horns.

Step back and step up so you can see the big picture of the dynamic and you have a ‘playbook’ of responses - never reactions - to drop in with low energy, rinse and repeat.

Never let them sense any anxiety or tension because that’s the blood they are after.

Put them on an information diet. Play it like a game of bingo - you know what he will say next and have your low energy slow response bland statements ready to drop ‘No, that doesn’t work for me’ ‘No, I’m busy’ ‘No I’m not available for that’ Never give details as that’s an ‘in’ and something they can pick at.

Once he stops getting his reward of sensing your upset, agitation, tension - he will be off to seek that need elsewhere.

Labragoogle · 25/09/2025 00:45

This resonates so much with my situation & a very similar obstructive, manipulative B blocking & making what’s already a stressful enough situation all the worse. And an enabling mother who can’t assert her own boundaries & who he’s been abusing financially & manipulating with threats of self harm if she doesn’t comply with his wishes for years. (We are in the process of me applying to be her finance LPA to safeguard her). I feel your pain tho OP! And feel too that the stress & anguish in dealing with him (& how he impacts my mother) is much worse than that of my DM’s dementia. It seems the sibling & family dynamics really get turbo charged at these times unfortunately. I too know my role in the system (& own codependent tendencies) where instead of as so many of you wise women (& men maybe!) advise, of stepping back & letting the consequences befall them, I keep stepping in & “saving her/them”. Something that’s such a hard line to tread when your aged parent & their dementia or related conditions mean you have to care, or at least respond, in some way that any dutiful adult child would want to, as their illness or condition necessitates. It’s a nightmare! How much though is the question we probably all struggle with to an extent.

Solidarity OP & to all who’ve trodden the path. This thread has really given me the steering sense to stop getting affected & hurt on my mother’s behalf or by my DB’s manipulations (enlisting other family members & brainwashing them too). And like you all say Social Services can always be contacted if necessary who must have seen it oh so many times all before.
The thing I most related to OP is that you can very easily grey rock your brother, as I can, but he has control over your DM & exploits & abuses that. Meaning that your access to her & facilitating ber needs, is as it is for me, contingent on your brother who occupies an only too dominant role & can obstruct & sabotage & undermine her wellbeing, just because he can.
It makes it literally impossible to help. I never forecast just how difficult family dynamics would make the process of coping with ageing parents so much harder to cope with. Oh how naive I was!!

Ferrissia3 · 23/09/2025 23:03

What an EXCELLENT response op - I'm enjoying imagining his confusion!

YelloDaisy · 23/09/2025 22:52

You could imply that the cleaner would be grateful for the work /needs the money so DM is more welcoming

MoodyMargaret11 · 23/09/2025 22:38

Brilliant response OP, especially as you were put on the spot! Faultless really. "massaging his ego" with clever sarcasm 😄
You have proven to yourself that you've got everything it takes to tackle him in the best way - ZERO drama or aggression. Hats off to you 💐
Now just don't lose momentum, he will soon see that his shenanigans are a complete waste of time.

mrsmumbles · 23/09/2025 19:29

I thought that might be the case @wannabedogwoman. I understand.

I do have a similarly difficult person in my life sadly. Things only really changed for the better once I had a lot of therapy and found my own authority in the relationship. One day I just stopped telling them everything, in fact I straight up hid things from them lots of the time, and stopped tiptoeing around them. I just sort of started acting as if they weren't there a lot of the time, hence my suggestion to you. I definitely understand why it won't work for you though.

It sounds like you are well on your way to finding a new approach that does work for you - well done on the babysitting response and well done in general for digging into the dynamic and trying to dismantle it. It's funny in the end how easy it is to use flattery to manipulate manipulative people!

WhenIAmKing · 23/09/2025 18:21

I guarantee none of his colleagues are wondering why his sister - with a job and kids and an elderly mum - isn’t also babysitting for him. If he wants a sitter he can pay one like everybody else.

Great response - yes you’re right flattering him while saying no is a good tactic to avoid arguments.

Handsomesoapdish · 23/09/2025 17:28

Brilliantly handled @wannabedogwoman expertly done. Keep saying no. He will never stop asking. My SIL is utterly brazen. Nothings stops these types.

thepariscrimefiles · 23/09/2025 17:09

That's a great response to your brother wanting you to babysit so he can go on a work night out. He really is cheeky and entitled. I wonder what his work colleagues really think about him blaming his sister for not babysitting. I can't believe that he complains to them about you. What an arsehole he is!

wannabedogwoman · 23/09/2025 16:20

Thanks everyone. @mrsmumbles you seem to understand him well- I hope it's not through personal experience of some one like him. Unfortunately there's no way that Mum would agree to keep anything from Brother for long- she is convinced that he's a lovely person at heart so whilst she'll hide some small things from him when he's in a bad mood she soon reverts to wanting to run everything past him.

Spurred on by everyone's support, I think I have made some small progress today. Once again Brother is trying to block some small changes to the way Mum's medical appointments are managed (changing from appointments at multiple small centres for different conditions to appointments at a larger centre where they have suggested we could arrange several of her routine appointments for the same day- which would save me a huge amount of time). My stance has been- 'Yes, I understand that changing things could be awkward at first but if we make this change I can organise things so that there is no more than one medical trip per week so if I do my work in the evenings and weekends I can manage that. I you and Mum want to keep things as they are, I understand, and will sort our x, y and z clinics but you will need to organise and take her to a, b and c.' He kicked off a bit- lots of noise about how he already does 'everything' else. But ultimately agreed to 'allow' me to make this change. He has since been in touch to say that we need to discuss how I will help his family- since he has 'saved' me so much time agreeing to this apparently I can't use the excuse of being too busy. Apparently this Friday he is 'once again the only one unable to go on the work night out and it's starting to be embarrassing. Apparently 'everyone' wonders why he can't get a babysitter when he has a sister who can go out whenever she likes (reference to the fact I told Mum I was visiting a friend the weekend before). I did not apologise or explain, just said 'Yes, it's difficult when you have young children isn't it. DH and I used to take it in turns at going out with work/friends once a month or so-you and your DP could do that. You were smart leaving having children until later, at least you got to go out when you were younger.' [I don't think he's smart, but I have learned that massaging his ego whilst saying a firm no really confuses him]

OP posts:
mrsmumbles · 22/09/2025 23:40

@wannabedogwoman, what would happen if you colluded with your mother to allow your brother to live in his fantasy land, so that you could get on with caring for your mother in a consistent, sustainable way?

What I mean is, he's using classic controlling behaviour of guilt tripping, criticism, threat of shame and weaponised incompetence to assert his authority over you both. It's an entrenched dynamic over many years I guess? His emotional volatility has trained both of you to manage his reactions rather than address the actual problem. It's a nice set up for him because he gets to create just enough disruption to allow him to do very little actual work, whilst maintaining a facade of the opposite.

Seeing as it is his false narrative that you are the "difficult one" who wants to "exclude" him, and he's Wonder Brother who only has your mother's best interests at heart, how about going along with it? Could you exclude him from knowledge of any and all external support you secure for your mother? Could you get her to hide it from him too? She's clearly happy to do that in some cases anyway, given she's asked you to keep some things under wraps so as not to upset him. Could you both keep him in the dark about the things you're putting in place? He doesn't sound like he's the type to be particularly attentive or locked in to the detail of your mother's care, and I think you've hinted that it's only your mum telling him what's going on that gives him the opportunity to interfere.

There's a clear gendered double standard here where you're expected to either do the work yourself or manage the solution, while his token attempts are treated as good enough. It reveals an underlying assumption that women should handle caregiving - so why not let him believe that's what's happening? Give him small "wins" that make him happy when you can, and carry on with your bigger goals regardless, same as you would with a toddler!

Maybe that would work, or maybe it would cause a huge shitstorm if he found out, or maybe your mum would feel unable to deceive him. What do you think?

Ultimately, grey rocking, radical acceptance that he won't change and working on increasing your mum's awareness of the complex dynamics at play are your core tools here really; your brother's modus operandi is irreconcilable with getting good, consistent care for your mother without drama so I'm just wondering if you can find ways to circumvent him.

And I know you probably know it, but just remember that his controlling, manipulative behaviour and escalation over every little thing is a choice HE is making to sabotage your mother's care, not something you're causing. He is much more concerned with maintaining his authority than ensuring your mother has consistent, good quality care - what does that say about his character. He's trained your mother to feel accountable for his actions and behaviour, and to prioritise his needs over her own wellbeing...but you can refuse to play the same role, and whether he knows you have refused is irrelevant really.

Gymmum82 · 22/09/2025 19:31

Is brother still married? Or was he as abusive to his wife and she divorced him?

Agree with others. Grey rock. Keep contact as minimal as possible. Let things fail and assert your boundaries. Be busy a lot ‘you want me to look after Sarah and David? Goodness I just couldn’t I barely have the time to look after my own children tinkly laugh’

PersistentRain · 22/09/2025 19:25

Be warned, when MIL passes away BIL told everyone that DH had done nothing, had hardly visited and he had cared for her 24 hours a day. We sfill have issues with relatives who clearly believed him.

wannabedogwoman · 22/09/2025 19:22

Thanks everyone. Sorry to hear that others have experienced similar, but it's very useful to have the benefit of your advice. As @Handsomesoapdish says, dealing with the toxic sibling is as exhausting and difficult as having to navigate mum's needs and the practical help I give her.
@Elsvieta I plan to take your advice. I am not really as patient as I am trying to be. Until quite recently when our parents' health deteriorated I had very little to do with Brother. His behaviour to me, my DH, our DC and my parents has been awful over the years (I could write many threads on the subject!) and as you say, our parents have unfortunately enabled him for lots of reasons. He has only started to try to increase the interaction between us since our parents have stopped being able to run around after him. Ideally I would like to cut all but contact with him but I know that will upset Mum a lot. Dad's illness/death was faster than anyone expected so she's gone through a real shock and I really don't want to add to her distress, but equally I refuse to sacrifice myself to keep Brother sweet.
PP mentioned that he may be looking for to protect his inheritance/get money from Mum and I think there's probably an element of that but I suspect his real motivation is to make things as difficult for me as possible. I've been asserting my boundaries and remaining calm/unemotional so I think he's trying to do everything he can to provoke a reaction.

PP also mentioned that he might try to badmouth me- this has already started. I'd really rather he didn't but I just keep having to remind myself that people who matter will know me well enough to realise what's happening and anyone who spends time with Mum will see what he's up to. It's all so unnecessary.

OP posts:
Zapx · 22/09/2025 19:19

“hey mum - I really need to reorganise how much and what I’m helping with. I think one thing that would really help is if we got a cleaner so that can free me up to still help with the appointments. The other option is I just stop cleaning and don’t get one - butI think we both know that might be a bit of a struggle. What do you think?”

As another poster said I think being prepared to let things “fail”, but that can be really really difficult! Your DB sounds really hard work and a bit of a nightmare... Please tell me you’re not actually doing childcare for him on top of everything else?!

I really hope you find a way to manage this (him).

rickyrickygrimes · 22/09/2025 19:13

Mum will not want to risk upsetting or annoying Brother

that’s the core issue, right there. And you can’t really do much about that. I can’t imagine your mum is going to have some kind epiphany at her age. She has raised him to be this person, and neither of them are going to change. It’s commendable that you want to save your mum from distress, but frankly, given the personalities and the history here, there isn’t a lot you can do to change it.

so you either set your boundaries and keep them tight- or you give in for the sake of peace, over and over and over again.

MrsLizzieDarcy · 22/09/2025 19:03

I had the same with my sister when our Dad was terminally ill. I've not spoken a word to her since his ashes interal. And don't intend to again until I have to. I'm dreading when our Mum's health starts to decline and we get to play the stupid games all over again.

PersistentRain · 22/09/2025 18:48

BIL didn’t want MIL paying for certain things as he didn’t want her funds depleted. Much easier for me and DH (300 miles away) to do it.
DH went home frequently and he complained that DH wasn’t basically spending all the time hanging around his house entertaining him and ignoring MIL.

Everytime he asks just starting listing allllll the things you are doing and then ‘so I just don’t have the time’ every single time.

Handsomesoapdish · 22/09/2025 18:32

Using your example of organising 'Jane' the cleaner I would need to be there when Jane arrived (or Mum would not let her in). Mum would say that it was unnecessary as she could clean for herself. I would remind her of the cleaning she can't manage herself and tell her I won't be doing it for her but Jane could. That first time Jane would do an excellent job and Mum would agree it's a good idea. She would tell Brother how great Jane is but Brother would tell her she shouldn't have agreed to it. Who knows who Jane is or whether she can be trusted? Why am I 'throwing Mum's money away' paying Jane? If I'm refusing to clean for her now, he will do it. He had no idea she needed help with cleaning- why was he not involved in the discussion? If he'd known, he would have offered to clean for her. In fact he's hurt that she didn't ask him. Why could that be- are we trying to push him out? If I'm refusing to do a bit of cleaning for my lovely Mum then he'll just have to do it. He would make some half hearted attempt at cleaning for few weeks then make lots of excuses. Mum will not want to risk upsetting or annoying Brother so will try to manage doing it herself. When I notice and try to get Jane back in to clean Mum will resist, as it's only a short term issue and Brother will be able to do it for her soon, he promised. The expectation will be that I will do it 'just for now' rather than bring Jane in and make Brother feel ousted. She may even ask me not to tell Brother that I've had to do it, in case he feels upset or criticised for not being able to do the cleaning for now. This is all based on his reactions to similar issues. I am trying to stand my ground but on some things I can see I will have to allow it to go wrong before she will admit that help is needed.

Just on this type of interaction, you need to stop this type of interaction early with a boundary. I highly suggest you practice some role play on this. Chat GPT can be great for this.

There are opportunities for you to stop this discussion in its tracks and for you to leave when these conversations start up.

Manipulative people are experts in these types of interactions, the secret is becoming expert in stopping them. It really does work. When you get used to it they get utterly flummoxed by the change on your side of the interaction. The secret is emotional disengagement. All their little digs and passive aggressive comments go straight over your head.

My version is when they make the sly passive aggressive digs about you pulling back

“I hear your point of view but I see things differently, feel free to do what works for you and I’ll do what word for me.”

Then disengage.

If he comes back at you which he will, you repeat the above starting with

“this conversation is going around in circles now, as I said you do what you can do and I’ll do the same.”

And walk away.

Handsomesoapdish · 22/09/2025 18:15

We are just out the end of a very similar situation except it was my husband’s sister who was demanding, needy, aggressive and over stepped everyone’s boundaries. She lived abroad but she knew better than everyone else how others should be caring for her mother and she also was in complete denial about what was in front of us.

I guess we had the advantage that it was my husband who had to push back so it was not exactly a threatening level of aggression in that way but it has ended any hope of a future meaningful relationship with his sister which he finds sad.

How he handled interactions with her was all about deciding in advance what was reasonable and sticking with that knowing she was going to be completely unreasonable and deeply irrational. He limited emotionally charged conversations and he was more than willing to push back on unworkable demands if he needed too, I highly recommend the same.

Honestly dealing with the toxic sibling was as difficult as dealing with his mother’s illness, it was a horrendous time.

His sister also tried to bad mouth us to whomever would listen so be prepared for that too.

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