Should what they NEED trump what they WANT?

Absolutely, I read @rickyrickygrimes ' post as supportive of you, not criticising! We get into a pattern of focusing on their needs before (or totally instead of) our own - you have the right to take care of yourself first.

And btw, I identify with the 'twinkly Waitrose man' thing... my brother has a mate in his early 50s, and my own 82 year old NarcMother thinks he's her 'special friend' and can't wait for him to admit it and leave his wife... 🤦‍♀️

It’s all very well letting them do what they want - if it doesn’t mean family run ragged trying to support them.

Once dementia is involved, of course, there will usually come a point where their needs absolutely have to trump their wants - they are no longer capable of understanding that they can’t manage their own cooking/shopping/washing any more, let alone anything like finances.

But those who still have capacity refusing paid help that they could well afford, because ‘my daughter will do it’ (nearly always a daughter, isn’t it?) is just IMO rather too common self-centredness

Poor old dh had nightmares with an elderly childless aunt, who found excuses to turn away all the help he’d arranged for her (which she could well afford) - she wanted him dancing attendance - and we lived a 2 hour drive away!

PS I've been on Mumsnet so long that I had to triple read the title of this thread because I couldn't work out what an elderly parents thread had to do with the president of the United States...

Then let her live with the consequences

I'm afraid that sometimes what they need must trump what they want. When it comes to safety matters for example. And any behaviour or practices that seriously impact others. Of course how you judge this is tricky; when your parents have been difficult for a long time it might become quite exhausting. If compassion fatigue has already set in, it's no wonder that your asking these questions. My love and best to you.

I think for things you are doing and providing, then working to their needs and not wants is fine.

I am my MIL default carer. Last week she had a fall and couldn’t get around ie to toilet etc without help. I have a job I can do from anywhere so I worked from hers for 3 days. I told her I couldn’t be there on Saturday as had plans so we need to work on her being more mobile (she has just pulled a muscle in leg). I also had to pretend I needed to be in the office on Monday just to break that habit of me being there as she wants me there all day at her beck and call but no longer NEEDS me there. She did make a comment to my DH about me being around for something on Thursday or Friday and how it’s ok as ‘springtome works here now’ 😂 he made it clear I don’t and was only there last week as she needed help.

We are still going each night to sort out food and leaving her with food for breakfast and lunch the next day but I hope that the limited offerings will mean she will try and get up and about to make her own food 😂

@rickyrickygrimes my H is like that - his view is that he will cross that bridge when it’s a real need rather than a future proofing 15 years in advance and pay for help to move etc - with him it’s all about location and he likes lively and facilities and ability to get buses and taxis will anyway - so it will be about ‘home’ rather than location

Glad to see you are still about @BlueLegume
I have read all your threads
You are such a caring person.
I hope one day to read on here you finally manage to escape the FOG.

As long as they have capacity, you have to respect their wishes/wants but at the same time if you disagree with their decisions, you don’t have to tie yourself in knots trying to help them see those poor decisions through.

It all depends on the nature of your relationship too. If your parents have always been difficult then it’s unlikely to change as they get older. I’ve always had a good relationship with my parents (now just my dad since my mum died). He’s quite sensible and doesn’t want to be a ‘burden’ so for the past year I’ve been gently nudging him toward sheltered accommodation. At first he wasn’t sure and wanted time to consider all his options but then he began to realise that being in sheltered would reduce his bills significantly and give him an added layer of security (24 hour warden). We’re now actively looking. It will be hard for him to give up the family home but he’s realised it’s even harder to pay people to maintain the garden, the cleaning and to keep the house properly warm in the winter. Once he viewed a lovely sheltered bungalow, he ‘saw the light’ and could see the benefits versus living in a bigger house with stairs and draughty bedrooms.

If your parents are normally reasonable people, these conversations are easier. If they’ve always been difficult then there might come a point where you continue to oversee their care but stop running yourself into the ground ‘enabling’ them to live in an environment which isn’t suited for their needs. It’s a tricky one!

You could do shopping on line and get it delivered.

It is really difficult parents becoming more like the children and the children becoming the unwilling parents. But forcing old people to do what's good for them rather than what they want to do is really patronising and causes resentment, they probably don't have long left and I think the longer they can do what they want (before it becomes what they have to do regardless) the better, no matter how annoying it becomes. Leave them to their own ways until they ask for help and then propose solutions that don't impact you too much, like grocery deliveries, cleaner, gardener, ready meals, personal alarms and whatever else. You may have to say you really can't do it all for them any more you are also getting older, not as fit, etc. And if they are not happy about it that's unfortunate but its the way it is..

I empathise so much with this thread. My DPs are/were nicer people than your DM, but their dogged insistence to live their lives exactly how they want - even if that means they can hardly do anything or are overly reliant on their only DC ( that would be me) - drains any positive emotions I have towards them, except perhaps a small bit of sympathy.

I recently listened to Mel Robbins “Let them” and that has really helped me. I do/visit as much as I feel can be expected of a dutiful adult DD, and the visits are for me so I can feel like I am doing the right thing, but still living my own life. I can already see they need ( in my eyes) more, but they have refused my attempts to discuss it or come up with solutions that will allow them to stay in their own home for as long as possible. They refuse to spend any of their vast wealth on this, banging on about inheritance at all possible opportunities, not getting that I would much rather they spend their funds on themselves so I can apply for well paid full time jobs, rather than part time low paid ones so I can support them.

Sorry that was longer than expected. I have had to harden my heart and leave it until they end up in a genuinely unsafe position.

their stock response is ‘we don’t want that’ or ‘that won’t work for us’.

Clearly they are mumsnetters, given that 'that won't work for me' is the phrase most championed on here.

You need to start using it too.

Don’t apologise! It’s because it’s dominating your thoughts. You are important too. Bring yourself forward, put yourself first.

Thank you - I will pass this on to my SIL.

She bears the brunt of my MILs narcissism unfortunately, as the adult child living close to them ( her sons wisely moved a long way away from her).

As long as they have capacity, they decide what their priorities are.

That said - if they are relying on you to do these things then its up to you if you do them or not.

They have the right to decide what they want.
They don't have the right to make you provide it / enable them to access it.

it’s great that you have stepped back. It will take some time before your pattens of thinking about this change. Are you having counselling at all?

The core is: you get to choose how you respond to your parents. The problem is that you have been conditioned since childhood to jump when they click their fingers, or that their happiness / well-being is your responsibility. That, again, is your choice - though a hard one to make.

I think I get to the point every now and then where I can see how a few simple things would make my mothers life infinitely better - and yes I do mean better - but her utterly stubborn attitude and know it all character stop her realising as such. So what? She doesn’t want to make her life better, so leave her to it. Go and live your own life. Every post you write is endlessly filled with the minutiae of your mums wants / needs. What are yours?

Dear oh dear.

Childish with narcissistic tendencies?