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Elderly parents

Catch 22 with elderly parents and POA

60 replies

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 11:56

My in-laws, 89 and 90, live independently at home a few hours away from me, they have been in their current home since the 1960’s. We organise home shopping, prescriptions etc and visit when we can. They are no longer able to keep on top of their finances, are pretty much housebound, can’t get to a bank unless we take them, don’t do tech, refuse to pay anything on line, won’t use cards. They have both become very confused over the past year and their short term memory is terrible. They don’t recall a conversation you had with them an hour ago.

They sorted POA ten years ago, they have POA for financial issues for each other, and then their three children are named, two of which live overseas. Problem is that the children (one of which is my husband) cannot act for them unless their POA’s for each other are revoked. They don’t understand why they need to be revoked, they don’t have capacity to instruct their solicitor to change it, but they don’t have capacity to act for each other in the event of something happening, such as needing to pay for carers etc. They have numerous bank accounts with significant funds but have no way of accessing them as they don’t understand how to without significant assistance, but as we cannot currently use the POA we are stuck.

they did the right thing setting up the POA but unfortunately they are trapped in an awful situation where they aren’t able to act for each other and no one can act for them.

Does anyone have any experience of this problem? Any advice on how to move forward would be appreciated.

OP posts:
unsync · 13/08/2025 18:21

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 13:29

They do have H & W for each other but did not list replacement attorneys, so we don’t have any control over that. Not sure why they only did financial.

It's to do with the change from Enduring PoA to Lasting PoA. EPAs only covered property and finances. LPAs cover H&W too. My parents were caught in this, but our solicitors are good. The advantage to LPAs is you get the digital access codes which makes it easier to register them with organisations.

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 15:07

AnnaMagnani · 13/08/2025 13:32

Would either parent be able to understand 'I want my daughter/son to look after my money and pay the bills'.

Doing a new LPOA without the solicitor but with family and friends may be possible.

I think if a POA is already registered with the OPG you’re not able to do an additional one. The original has to be removed.

OP posts:
LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 14:47

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 14:41

Sorry, the solicitor didn’t mention clauses, I was just saying I wish there was one! All three siblings are listed as replacements. Jointly and severally. The issue is proving they no longer have the capacity to act for each other. A professional capacity assessment is probably going to be the way forward.

You may not need a professional capacity report (they can cost £££!). Ask the GP, a social worker etc, before you go down that route.

But yes if they’re all listed as replacements, it’s as simple as sending the LPAs to the OPG with the proof (you’ll need a letter for each parent). H&W will be cancelled but like I say, they’ll consult family on those decisions without one. You’re unlikely to get a H&W deputyship order for them. PFA LPAs will be returned with a “this Attorney cannot act” stamp for each parent and a “this Attorney can now act” for each replacement. Get certified ID for all Attorneys (or just the one in this country, if that’s their preference) and send certified copies off to the banks etc. it can be time consuming but the solicitor isn’t really needed at this stage

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 14:41

LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 14:04

The solicitor isn't worth the hourly fee if they've told you you need to look for a clause in the LPA. There is no such thing. The way they are set up is that anyone named as replacement attorney can step in when the first attorney/attorneys can't.

Are your husband and his siblings explicitly named under the replacement section, or as Attorneys?

In each case - are they appointed jointly, jointly and severally or j&s on some and jointly on others?

Sorry, the solicitor didn’t mention clauses, I was just saying I wish there was one! All three siblings are listed as replacements. Jointly and severally. The issue is proving they no longer have the capacity to act for each other. A professional capacity assessment is probably going to be the way forward.

OP posts:
LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 14:04

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 14:02

Yes, I think this is the route we may have to take. The solicitor is still intending to meet with them this month, so we’ll wait to see what they say. We just seem to be going around in circles at the moment.

The solicitor isn't worth the hourly fee if they've told you you need to look for a clause in the LPA. There is no such thing. The way they are set up is that anyone named as replacement attorney can step in when the first attorney/attorneys can't.

Are your husband and his siblings explicitly named under the replacement section, or as Attorneys?

In each case - are they appointed jointly, jointly and severally or j&s on some and jointly on others?

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 14:04

stillhiding1990 · 13/08/2025 13:45

Can the two overseas poa rescind?

They don’t need to rescind, they are happy to be POA and thankfully all three children are in agreement.

OP posts:
charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 14:02

LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 13:43

They don’t need to do this!!! The children are appointed as replacements for PFA. All they need to do is confirm to the OPG that the original attorneys lack capacity.

Yes, I think this is the route we may have to take. The solicitor is still intending to meet with them this month, so we’ll wait to see what they say. We just seem to be going around in circles at the moment.

OP posts:
BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 13:49

@Hayley1256 but I was under the impression you cannot set up an LPA for someone who lacks capacity though. Is your suggestion to revoke the current LPAs held by @charliehungerford elderly people and then set about setting up new ones with new attorneys?

stillhiding1990 · 13/08/2025 13:45

Can the two overseas poa rescind?

LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 13:43

Hayley1256 · 13/08/2025 13:39

Get the paperwork to revoke the POA and then the paperwork to set up a new new one. If they are formally diagnosed with any kind of dementia then it will need to be registered with the court of protection.

They don’t need to do this!!! The children are appointed as replacements for PFA. All they need to do is confirm to the OPG that the original attorneys lack capacity.

Hayley1256 · 13/08/2025 13:39

Get the paperwork to revoke the POA and then the paperwork to set up a new new one. If they are formally diagnosed with any kind of dementia then it will need to be registered with the court of protection.

AllTheWatersTurnedToClouds · 13/08/2025 13:36

It takes a lot to lack capacity. When DM was ill we were told that as long as mum understood the question when asked it, and was able to answer, she had capacity.

The fact she had no memory of it an hour later was neither here nor there, apparently.

AnnaMagnani · 13/08/2025 13:32

Would either parent be able to understand 'I want my daughter/son to look after my money and pay the bills'.

Doing a new LPOA without the solicitor but with family and friends may be possible.

LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 13:31

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 13:29

They do have H & W for each other but did not list replacement attorneys, so we don’t have any control over that. Not sure why they only did financial.

There’s nothing complicated about this situation.

H&W is tougher but in the absence of a valid LPA, family members etc will be consulted.

You need to get a capacity assessment and then contact the OPG. That’s all you need to do.

WellIquitelikesprouts · 13/08/2025 13:30

Redburnett · 13/08/2025 12:31

If they still officially have capacity your DH could take them both or one of them depending on account status to a bank and change one account with plenty of funds into a joint account with your DH. He could then use that account online to pay bills etc. I realise this might be frowned upon but it works, as long as the parent has enough capacity to agree in the meeting with bank official. Obviously your DH would need to keep copies of all statements to satisfy anyone asking that he wasn't personally misappropriating funds.

I wouldn’t do that. DH would be liable for tax on half the interest, and could be in trouble for persuading a vulnerable person to give him money.

AnnaMagnani · 13/08/2025 13:30

I would also suggest phoning the OPG before doing anything.

They take a long time to pick up but are very helpful.

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 13:29

unsync · 13/08/2025 13:26

Did they set up H&W LPAs when things changed? The EPAs will only let you do the financial stuff.

They do have H & W for each other but did not list replacement attorneys, so we don’t have any control over that. Not sure why they only did financial.

OP posts:
charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 13:27

BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 13:11

@charliehungerford thank you. I know that if I had my time again I would be very firm on the LPA we set up for our parents about certain ‘I don’t want’ statements we are now facing and have discussed with our mother than certain things are needed - maybe she does not ‘want’ them but it is running us ragged trying to manage her life. We, well not me so much now as I have had to step back as it made me ill.

Please take care and perhaps have a conversation with the elderly people in your life that they at a stage now where needs trump wants.

Edited

Thank you @BlueLegume, I hope your situation eventually resolves itself. In hindsight we should have reviewed the POA set up a few years ago when they were just a bit forgetful’, it could have been much easier, I fear it’s now too late. They do want us to help, but they aren’t able to explain this to the solicitor. We are starting to make provision for our old age and will try to ensure things are not so difficult for our own children.

OP posts:
unsync · 13/08/2025 13:26

Did they set up H&W LPAs when things changed? The EPAs will only let you do the financial stuff.

BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 13:11

@charliehungerford thank you. I know that if I had my time again I would be very firm on the LPA we set up for our parents about certain ‘I don’t want’ statements we are now facing and have discussed with our mother than certain things are needed - maybe she does not ‘want’ them but it is running us ragged trying to manage her life. We, well not me so much now as I have had to step back as it made me ill.

Please take care and perhaps have a conversation with the elderly people in your life that they at a stage now where needs trump wants.

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 13:06

BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 12:52

@charliehungerford I only say this because my siblings and I are in a similar situation with our mother. We desperately need help with her as she is resistant to anything that might help her refusing to have food delivery/cleaner/carers etc. We contacted Social Services who were really helpful EXCEPT that our mother refused an assessment and was deemed by them to ‘have capacity’. Our LPA for Health and Welfare is utterly useless quite frankly. Good luck it is such a difficult situation.

https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/consent-to-treatment/capacity/

Edited

Sorry you are also having difficulties @BlueLegume. I don’t think they would have an objection to an assessment, we might need to go down that route. I know these procedures are there to protect people, but it does make it very difficult to help them.

OP posts:
dogcatkitten · 13/08/2025 12:54

Your word that they don't have capacity is not enough, I assume you would need a GP or geriatric specialist to give a professional opinion in writing.

BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 12:52

@charliehungerford I only say this because my siblings and I are in a similar situation with our mother. We desperately need help with her as she is resistant to anything that might help her refusing to have food delivery/cleaner/carers etc. We contacted Social Services who were really helpful EXCEPT that our mother refused an assessment and was deemed by them to ‘have capacity’. Our LPA for Health and Welfare is utterly useless quite frankly. Good luck it is such a difficult situation.

https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/consent-to-treatment/capacity/

charliehungerford · 13/08/2025 12:48

BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 12:42

Have they had an assessment to say they have no longer have full capacity @charliehungerford? As far as my knowledge goes a solicitor cannot deem them to lack capacity

Edited

I think you are correct, perhaps we should look at getting proper capacity assessment for both of them, then go down the OPG route as others have suggested.

OP posts:
BlueLegume · 13/08/2025 12:42

Have they had an assessment to say they have no longer have full capacity @charliehungerford? As far as my knowledge goes a solicitor cannot deem them to lack capacity