At home, no capacity and no deputyship - access to money

We had a spookily similar situation with fil. None of us live remotely close by and not able to help. We have offered many a time over the years for him to move here but...

Discharged from hospital with no capacity with carers coming in a few times a day, except he would often go wandering so would very rarely be there when they arrived. A couple months went by and he had a terrible accident involving hot oil and a fireplace. There was no food, house was a shit hole, his clothes were all caked in shit.

Was in hospital for months recovering and there was one nurse who was bloody amazing at pushing ss into getting him formally assessed and into a care home. He had no option.

Unfortunately, you probably will have to step back. Liase with the care company and ss if you can, but accept that's all you can do.

@roundaboutthehillsareshining Will her carers get involved with SS if it becomes apparent there's no food in the house? We've already been told they can't facilitate or support her getting to the bank....
Well Ss funded carers won't as they are for personal care tasks, but she could use AA to pay for a private carer to do this task?

If she does go home the carers will notice that there is no food qnd no money to pay for anything, who is paying for,the care package, what is there responsibility. If they are asked to prepare a meal and drinks they will soon notice theres nothing in the fridge. They hopefully will make a referral to adult social,care safeguarding team and get her hospitalised again.

It sounds mean but I think you perhaps need to step back and let social services sort it out. I think the reality is if at home with no money / food a care home probably becomes a default.

I suspect they hope family will step up and save time / effort. I’d just make it clear that you can’t help and step back.

If so arranged everything in her best interest they can do the same for her finances if she lacks capacity. Ask for a best interest meeting and a meeting with her consultant and pals, don't involve yourself at this stage with arranging getting her safely home, put in a unsafe discharge concern to the hospital and community social services and her GP.

Not helpful because I had POA for both parents after a bit of fuss but anyone heartily sick of hearing about elderly people doing it their way or the high way and being an observer in their own chaos?

Of expecting others to pay for them, do things their way or not doing it all even if it means bills are unpaid? I took over late parents accounts but a colleague at work is run ragged by her parent who doesn’t believe in direct debits, who wants to go to a bank or post office to pay bills. Only issue is they are almost housebound now and expect colleague to use this same method?

As a short term measure I would think gardening, new clothes and excessive phone bills can go (obviously she will need a phone for emergencies). Things like insurance would already be in place? Utility companies have support for people who need extra help and I thought they didn’t cut people off too quickly these days as they have to adhere to agreed standards. Really it’s food money and others more experienced than me have already answered. I fully take the point though that just because a person has family, it is assumed they will be able to carry the financial costs if needed.

How were bills paid before, if she lacks capacity then who agreed and arranged for her to go home and who arranged a care package? Who's organising transport home. Has a safeguarding referral been made to adult social services. If she's potentially going home to no food, no water, no heating, unpaid bills then it's an jnsafd discharge and social services and her advocate will need to speak to the court of protection.

Bugger.

Or a Banking Hub may be a more local option.

I recently retired from a bank. I would say every branch has it's elderly regulars who go in at least once a week to withdraw often scarily substantial amounts of cash for shopping etc and they pay any utility bills etc there or at the Post Office by cash or cheque.
It may be possible for the OP to be added as a 3rd party or get a carers card depending on the bank. It will, however, require taking the relative into a branch.

So she paid all her bills in cash. I would say that is very unsual. That must have taken an awful lot of time for her to do all of that every month.

Until Deputyship comes through you have to pay for things and keep the receipts. You can claim the money back once deputyship is granted. (Going through similar at the moment and have taken a lot of advice.) In the short term you could ask her if she'd get some extra cash out of the bank (you take her to the bank) and then you use it to get food delivered 'to save her the hassle' (I've had to use that phrase a lot about many things). But until you have deputyship the onus falls on the family to provide financial support.

When her capacity is okay as you say she has good days. Get her to ring the bank and get them to send her a card.

There is no other option!!! You cannot do anything without a court order or LPA. You get the deputyship process moving as fast as possible and gather as much information as you can. You do the appointee application for her state pension and you explain to as many people as possible that you’re going through the deputyship process. You pay for what you can and get a refund (keep receipts as you’ll need to report to the OPG each year)

Then you apply for attendance allowance, make sure she’s claiming her state pension and do a deputyship application. Stop saying no and get on and do it.

They won't know there isn't any food if they are just doing personal care. Assume from what you have said she won't ask for help?

She will be hungry I suspect unless you facilitate something for her. But if she doesn't say anything and you aren't able to do that then who would know?

You could flag it up when that happens to SS so not the bank access but that she's not feeding herself.

You may have said sorry but will she let you take her to the bank and she withdraws the money, can she understand that? But then if she can't get to the shop that's no use I suppose.

If she has capacity then that’s that - making unwise decisions isn’t a lack of capacity. All you can do is await the outcome of the capacity assessment and go from there. If she’s self neglecting she may end up in care but that’s a last resort