At home, no capacity and no deputyship - access to money

if family do not want to blow up the relationship by openly moving to take over her affairs, nor are they willing / able to fund her living costs surreptitiously for 6-8 months, then they probably have no option but to step back and leave it to social services - and watch it fall apart. They can certainly be on hand to report the inevitable failures without stepping in to solve them.

Hello again OP

does anyone in the family have any kind of constructive relationship with the elderly relative? Is there anyone she trusts?

Unfortunately the reality is that people with mental health conditions who are otherwise deemed to have capacity often end up living very chaotic lives.

what do you think she will do if she is discharged home? what duties are the carers going to be instructed to carry out? And what’s the reporting system if they have concerns?

Social care will pay the care bill if lacking capacity and then the deputy pays it back when it comes through

I would suggest the CoP apply or appoint deputies if she lacks financial capacity, they can also appoint a health deputy, the family are under no obligation at all, the ss know this.

@roundaboutthehillsareshining I sort of feel you are going round in circles here. You have had the advice. You need to say to SS, GP, and the hospital this is now a safeguarding issue for neglect and get them to step up. You will need to keep reiterating it. As I said previously we had this for my DM and it was a nightmare at the time but you need to keep pushing.

For as long as you relative is deemed to have some capacity SS will not apply for LPA or Deputyship as it will fail. It needs to reach crisis point before they can step in. And it will reach the threshold of a crisis point the more you flag the issues, in writing to SS.

They aren't being obtuse but they need to legally demonstrate they have done all they can to support your relative to return home as that is their right and wishes until such time SS have definitive proof she is not capable of looking after herself. At the point of crisis, the team can step in and demonstrate to the Court of Protection your relative is not fit to look after themselves and it will trigger a whole load of assessments etc. Up until that point your relative could live naked in their back garden playing loud music as long it didn't endanger either themselves or anyone else.

I am sorry you are going through this, it is horrendous, but you need to buckle up for the ride as it is set to get worse before it gets better when someone is still so adamant they have capacity to look after themselves and won't consider LPA etc.

Edited to add with DM it took 5 days of 4 x daily carers visits before the wheels fell off and SS felt able to intervene properly. I suspect if it hadn't been Christmas it might have been sooner.

I think from what you've described you are now having to choose the least worst option. Your relative has engineered her life to ensure no one can help her without causing some kind of meltdown. In the interests of her welfare and safety she requires intervention and if that causes her to have a nuclear blowup, then sadly thats part of the price of keeping her alive and well. Yes, family may not like it, but from the sound of it this lady has form! And ultimately it's better to deal with a non speaking relative who is still alive and kicking, rather than a dead one whose death was potentially preventable if she had had this kind of intervention.
The emotional attachment to her or fear of fallout will have to be parked or disregarded for now, unfortunately, to prioritise the difficult decisions that have to be made to literally keep her alive and with some quality of life.
I hazard a guess based on your posts that someone closer to her is tearing their hair out in frustration and not for the first time with her.

The heating oil is a lot harder to deal with than gas though. If she was failing to pay gas bills, there are protections in place for vulnerable customers so she’d just build up debt but still have access to the gas.
But heating oil you pay for when it’s delivered. No payment, no heating oil.

And I’ve told you multiple times that aside from food everything else can wait!

it’s not always 6-8 months. It depends. I had one come back in 4 months a while ago. One came back in 2. Things are speeding up.

I have resigned myself almost to a rocky few months whilst ss try out all their crazy plans and they all fail, and / or my relative refuses their care then deteriorates some more consequently.
He’s going to end up in a home, at which point finances become much easier apparently because a deferred payment order can be set up.
(I know someone upthread said someone would need to sign such an agreement, but Age UK did not mention that issue?)

If you were applying for deputyship it does not matter a jot what she feels really (unless other relatives will side with her and oppose your appointment)

What's the IMCAs advice?

When my DM became too poorly to live on her own, she came to live with me and she just signed a form with the bank to say I could sign cheques on her behalf. This was 24 years ago though, but I assume it must still be possible. What have the bank advised?

Attendance Allowance isn't means-tested, so you don't need any financial details to apply, providing you get to be her appointee. Ask the Attendance Allowance people for advice.

Age UK have a money management service, very clued up on what they can and can’t do legally. May be worth you ringing your local office and discussing. They couldn’t help me but informed me so I could tell ss why their ideas weren’t feasible. 👀

See if you can go back to the hospital ones for ‘advice’. They have seen everything before, and more, and have a vested interest in ensuring that she doesn’t return.

They sorted out near miracles for me - from what you are saying I think I was dealing with similar house issues.

Are you dealing with the LA social workers or those in the hospital?

As I said SS will complete the form, they are used to it, and those who claim AA or help people claim it are used to answering the questions.
you don’t have to worry.
if she lacks capacity to manage finances then SS will help.
They can also provide food vouchers for carers, age UK etc (they obviously don’t advertise this fact else everyone would want free food! But for those individuals with no access to funds and no one to help, then they cant send someone home to no access to and no food, it’s safeguarding. They would be sent back by carers.

All of those things you listed are reasons for her to get AA OP!
There is lots of advice online about completing the form.
Why can’t she access the shower - presumably bc physically unable? Put that down!
Just describe her health problems, they don’t have to have a dx.