Page 4 | At home, no capacity and no deputyship - access to money

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 2025-07-22T07:39:03+00:00

So my elderly relative is being discharged home with a care package. Fine, it's what she wants and it's the least restrictive option, so it's got to happen this way (--even if it falls apart in a few months and she ends up back in hospital for 6 months)--. Anyway, there's nothing physically wrong and no dementia. Her team believe she has a new functional MH condition, but that can't be diagnosed in hospital and she won't engage with community care, so that's a dead end. However, it's likely she's going to be found to lack capacity to manage her financial affairs. Her bank account set up is hopelessly complicated (at her choice) and can only be administered in branch, which she's not going to be able to access. So if she's at home, and unable to access money, how does she pay for food etc until the deputyship comes through? The family can't afford to subsidise her, she isn't eligible for benefits as she's got money coming in, she just can't access it. So what happens? Anyone been in this situation before?

Blushingm · 27/07/2025 04:49

Capacity needs to be assessed first. It’s assumed she has capacity until she has been assessed to lack it.

she can make choices - even if unwise or not in her own best interests.

TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 26/07/2025 10:28

MissMoneyFairy · 26/07/2025 08:47

What do you suggest then?

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The thread to be closed off
These are only claims, not a single medical or social proof and I can imagine why the poor person has taken this stance in life knowing what her relatives think of her

TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 26/07/2025 10:26

Few months ago someone shared in a group about their relative who she thinks has something but not diagnosed, took her off her being next to kin < and possible poa , observe > and completely demonised the woman in this group. I told her that perhaps she suffers from rejection dysphoria, not that her relative has got something.

TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 26/07/2025 10:19

GoldPoster · 25/07/2025 22:26

This reads like something from the 19th century where the abusive husband tries to have his wife committed to an asylums.

This woman appears to being hounded and bullied by everyone involved.

I quite agree. The poster isn't even her closest relative. The woman doesn't have a single diagnosis, has got tons of money, is living her life as she wants it. They claim she is mentally ill but who are they really

MissMoneyFairy · 26/07/2025 08:47

GoldPoster · 25/07/2025 22:26

This reads like something from the 19th century where the abusive husband tries to have his wife committed to an asylums.

This woman appears to being hounded and bullied by everyone involved.

What do you suggest then?

GoldPoster · 25/07/2025 22:26

This reads like something from the 19th century where the abusive husband tries to have his wife committed to an asylums.

This woman appears to being hounded and bullied by everyone involved.

Tiredofwhataboutery · 25/07/2025 22:10

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:51

We're going to have to check because if someone in the family becomes deputy, they're going to have to take responsibility for dealing with the local planning department when it comes time for the property to be sold. Social services might do the work, but I don't trust that they'll check if its legal, I doubt they'll even think about it. And unfortunately it does seem that keysafes on listed buildings have to go through planning....

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You don’t necessarily have to put a key safe on the wall. You can get ones with tether cords (made of woven strands like bike locks) you attach to drainpipes or-door hsrdware. They are really tough to remove you’d need bolt cutters and a lot of determination.

MissMoneyFairy · 25/07/2025 09:04

TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 24/07/2025 18:28

How she had money if she was always so anti social. That's quite unusual. Is she just an obstinate quirk ?

Edited

What a strange thing to say

JanglyBeads · 24/07/2025 21:33

If she lives in a listed building it may be inherited money? Don't think there's any correlation between sociability and wealth, anyway!

TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 24/07/2025 18:28

How she had money if she was always so anti social. That's quite unusual. Is she just an obstinate quirk ?

countrygirl99 · 24/07/2025 18:06

Worst case scenario with the key safe is come a sale you have to remove it and make good so don't waste effort worrying about that.

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 17:25

If she actually does go home and the carers can't get in they will ring their manager who can ring the police or an ambulance to break the door down and do a welfare check if she's already be deemed vulnerable and has no capacity to look after herself, they can also step in when there's no food and she obviously isn't eating or drinking anything if they do get in the house. The utility bills can wait. Whose been looking after thd house and bills while she's been in hospital. I'd just step right back, she's not your relative or your responsibility.

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 17:00

Just attach it to the front door, I'm sure thousands of people have keysafes, cameras, doorbells, knockers on listed buildings.

rickyrickygrimes · 24/07/2025 15:59

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:51

We're going to have to check because if someone in the family becomes deputy, they're going to have to take responsibility for dealing with the local planning department when it comes time for the property to be sold. Social services might do the work, but I don't trust that they'll check if its legal, I doubt they'll even think about it. And unfortunately it does seem that keysafes on listed buildings have to go through planning....

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But as you keep pointing out you won’t have any official responsibility for at least 6-8 months, by which time the key safe will be installed and the council (planning control) can take it up with.. the other part of the council (social services). 🤷‍♀️

what would happen if you all just step right back and leave them to it? This is an option.

Original poster

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:51

rickyrickygrimes · 24/07/2025 15:42

so that's another fun thing we have to check.

Do you? why is that your responsibility?

what would happen if you all just stepped right back? And left it to ss? It doesn’t sound like it’s going to be sustainable in the slightest.

who are the people involved on the family side? I get the impression there are quite a few of you.

We're going to have to check because if someone in the family becomes deputy, they're going to have to take responsibility for dealing with the local planning department when it comes time for the property to be sold. Social services might do the work, but I don't trust that they'll check if its legal, I doubt they'll even think about it. And unfortunately it does seem that keysafes on listed buildings have to go through planning....

OP posts:

allmycats · 24/07/2025 15:50

Is it possible for someone to make a bank appointment and physically take her to the bank ?

rickyrickygrimes · 24/07/2025 15:42

so that's another fun thing we have to check.

Do you? why is that your responsibility?

what would happen if you all just stepped right back? And left it to ss? It doesn’t sound like it’s going to be sustainable in the slightest.

who are the people involved on the family side? I get the impression there are quite a few of you.

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 15:33

Is there no card of the elderly mental health team at the hospital? Which hospital is she in. Is she on a dols.

Original poster

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:30

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 15:26

Ss will know who is paying, as there is no lpa in place then I guess they aren't sharing information, there must have been s best interest meeting with ss and imca to assess and arrange the carers. If all they have asked is your opinion just tell them it's unsafe, you are not prepared to get involved and let ss and the cop sort it out. There must be a discharge co ordinator attached to the ward, if they think this is a mental illness issue is there a psychiatrist and cpn involved.

No, they won't diagnose mental illhealth in hospital, so no psychiatric input at all once the dementia diagnosis was excluded.

A functional MH diagnosis has to go through the community team, but there will be no engagement there as psychiatrists are all evil poisoners doing experiments on people (allegedly...)

OP posts:

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 15:26

Ss will know who is paying, as there is no lpa in place then I guess they aren't sharing information, there must have been s best interest meeting with ss and imca to assess and arrange the carers. If all they have asked is your opinion just tell them it's unsafe, you are not prepared to get involved and let ss and the cop sort it out. There must be a discharge co ordinator attached to the ward, if they think this is a mental illness issue is there a psychiatrist and cpn involved.

Original poster

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:21

linelgreen · 24/07/2025 15:18

Simple solution does she have a cheque book? Most elderly people do if so she just writes a cheque payable to you for £xxxx and you put it in your bank account and keep a log of what you spend on her behalf then once you reach the amount she has given you she issues you another cheque.

If she doesn't have capacity, then that would be stealing from her.

If she does have capacity, she won't consent to that anyway. Even if she did consent, it would appear as coercion and likely to be treated as theft.

OP posts:

linelgreen · 24/07/2025 15:18

Simple solution does she have a cheque book? Most elderly people do if so she just writes a cheque payable to you for £xxxx and you put it in your bank account and keep a log of what you spend on her behalf then once you reach the amount she has given you she issues you another cheque.

Original poster

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:16

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 14:45

Who is paying for the carers and care package

I genuinely don't know. The care package has been deemed mandatory, however if she is found to have financial capacity then she will refuse to complete a financial assessment and will therefore be self funding (which she will refuse to pay for). If she doesn't have financial capacity, then once the deputyship order is made, the deputy will have to do the financial assessment. Then we'll find out who's paying, as noone knows how much money she currently has, so she may well be over the self payment threshold.....

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Original poster

roundaboutthehillsareshining · 24/07/2025 15:13

rickyrickygrimes · 24/07/2025 14:35

Hello again OP

does anyone in the family have any kind of constructive relationship with the elderly relative? Is there anyone she trusts?

Unfortunately the reality is that people with mental health conditions who are otherwise deemed to have capacity often end up living very chaotic lives.

what do you think she will do if she is discharged home? what duties are the carers going to be instructed to carry out? And what’s the reporting system if they have concerns?

No, noone she would trust to manage her affairs or act on her behalf in any official capacity. She believes LPoA is a conspiracy to allow the state to take complete control (ironically what might happen if she doesn't sign one and it goes to the CoP instead....)

What's going to happen after discharge is probably what happened last time. She'll refuse to allow the carers access, they'll spend a few weeks being shouted at through the locked door (but at least if she's telling them to leave, then they know she's conscious). It'll go back to social services. In the meantime, she won't be eating as she'll have no money, so she'll inevitably fall and be found by police/ambulance, taken into hospital and round we go again...

The difference this time is the capacity issue, this is the first time her capacity to care for herself has been questioned. So she can't just fire the carers. In that respect, I don't know what's going to happen when she refuses to allow them access. SS have just said that they'll fit a keysafe (just occurred to me that I'm not sure the legality of fitting a keysafe to the exterior wall of a listed building and also it seems some councils don't fit keysafes to listed buildings as a matter of policy, so that's another fun thing we have to check......)

We don't know what the reporting mechanism will be, we have been given no information about a care plan, what the carers will actually be doing in their visits, what happens with the money situation, etc. All we've been asked is for our opinion on her being discharged home, any attempt to get further information out of SS is just ignored.

OP posts:

MissMoneyFairy · 24/07/2025 14:45

Who is paying for the carers and care package