BBC today: "I suddenly realised I was running two households"

On the 'other cultures do it better' line, a Chinese friend told me that families are increasingly putting their elderly relatives into care homes. More people are living and working in cities - and both partners working - so there's no--one to take care of the elderly at home anymore.

My DB is sharing the load with me for my DPs. (But I am probably doing more emotional support.)

I have actually seen a few friends DHs do some very heavy lifting with their own DPs, including one driving 5 hrs each way every other weekend for about a year alternating with his Dsis as his DPs lived on an island, until things reached their inevitable conclusion. Another friends DH moved into his DMs for her final days.

My DH is trying to split the load with me with my own DPs as I am an only DC and they live an hour away.

I'm running 2 households.
Currently juggling various medical appointments and trying to find new cleaners for DPs, with DD's maths GCSE resit, final college work, sorting college from September, finding driving instructor, helping her find summer work.
All getting a bit much, no doubt will feel better in a week once the maths is done.

I’m puzzled by ‘The ONS found that 61% of "sandwich" carers were female.’

I’d like to see if the data in that statistic included women’s husbands/partners who classed themselves as carers to their in laws when the woman did the vast majority of the caring?

I’m under the impression that it’s women who do 90% of the grunt work

To the detriment of women. Who wants their elderly parent living with them indefinitely.?! Those I know who have done it have all ended up on antidepressants. As an elderly parent it’s not a responsibility i’d want for my adult DC in the prime of their life with jobs, families and opportunities of their own.
When my rainy day is here I hope to buy in as much care as I can and leave them free of the burden.
In reality there are too many people living too long at great expense and in poor health. Nurse of 35 years.

I work in adult social work for elderly people and my job involves commissioning care at home and providing support to carers. I had absolutely no idea the reality of how hard it is for carers until I started this job and really glad that it is now being discussed.

I always feel terrible as what little support we can offer to carers gets more limited each year due to budget constraints and I've seen first hand the enormous stress and strain and impact on carers health both physically and mentally it can take. A lot of people seem to think that other cultures have it sorted and that the intergenerational model seems to be something to aspire too. I've worked with a few families from cultures where this is the norm and I've never been convinced it is the answer. It's always usually one woman left to care for multiple family members (both elderly and infants) and they are completely burnt out yet feel they can't ask for support due to expectations that they should be the ones doing the caring.

I've absolutely no idea what the solutions are but I am glad to see it being discussed.

Thanks for sharing those articles - the New Statesman one shared by @Sittingontheporch particularly resonated. My dad is currently caring for my mum (who has PSP, similar to the CBD disease portrayed in The Salt Path) and has got to the point where he can’t really manage her on his own as needs two people and a hoist to move her. Carers are now visiting 4x a day, get mum up, put her to bed and sort toilet visits, then dad spends most of the rest of the time trying to get her to eat - her swallowing is very poor so it’s spoon feeding prescribed energy smoothies and yoghurt with as many extra calories as possible mixed in.

They moved to be closer to us in 2021, about 25 min away, so I make sure I/we see them at least once a week unless we’re away. I’m an only child and whatever I can manage to do never feels enough. I have a DD6 and DD3 - second was born, on her due date, the week my parents moved, and dad was a bit put out that I said I couldn’t accommodate mum with me while he packed and moved. Even without the imminent baby she couldn’t have got upstairs to bed - he thought she could sleep on the sofa! Mum ended up spending a few days in a local care home which I visited daily with newborn and toddler.

When we visit I want to sit with/feed mum, but normally don’t get to as am constantly interrupted by the children, who still need a lot of input to entertain them in a not very child friendly house. I feel guilty that they don’t have a better relationship with mum, but it’s hard for them to interact as she can no longer speak and doesn’t really make eye contact well. I sometimes go on my own but then feel guilty as DH then has to have the children so I’m stopping him having time to do his stuff - we both work 4 days and have the 3 year old the other day. I sometimes take the younger one to visit but then I’m never there long enough as have to rush back for school pick up, and then I don’t get my own jobs done at home. I also frequently have to take time out at work to speak to dad when he phones because he just doesn’t have anyone else to talk to about stuff. Can’t speak in the evenings as mum’s and the children’s routines clash - which has been a recurring problem.

Dad has recently come round to the idea of respite care to give him a break, but there isn’t much availability locally and so I’ve spent a weekend with mum on my own while dad visited his sister. He really wants me to do it again, and is put out that the weekends I’m available don’t match when his sister is free- but one reason we are less available at the moment is that MIL 3 hours away (who is also a carer for FIL with very poor mobility) has recently been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer at just turned 70, has one son in Australia, another whose just had his fourth child, and then us (middle son).

Sorry, thats a mega rant but I am not a good daughter or at least I can’t be whilst also being a good enough mother, let alone a wife.

I think there should be more assisted/supporting living places. I’ve had two elderlies live in those - one attached to a nursing home, the other separate - and it was really positive for all. Company, support, able to access meals and companionship but also have their own space and visitors around. Warden keeping an eye and support for lifts to appointments and getting prescriptions. Those were both social housing (although anyone could have applied for them, it wasn’t limited to someone coming from social housing). So it wasn’t the type of luxury accommodation provided by the likes of McCarthy and Stone. But perfectly comfortable, centrally located and had everything required. My two did move from social housing so it also freed up two sizeable flats for families to move into. That sort of accommodation would make a difference to not only elderly people but also social housing tenants needing somewhere for their family to live.

The other thing is residential care. It’s much much harder to get into now. Really only happens for a self-finder but in my relative’s case, chose to move in, chose the home, enjoyed a comfortable life with companionship, activities if wanted, good food etc. She went from being scared and lonely living alone to several years like a new lease of life. Again, much easier for relatives as the home handled medical appointments and prescriptions.

That might be the case when relatives are independent and support needs are lighter. We shared our home with PIL and it worked well for a long time but it was much more challenging when the time came to balancing the needs of young teens and grandparents with serious health issues and dementia.

At one stage, my DH and I took to sleeping in shifts so that we could deal with the bed alarm alerting us to a potential fall which would go off roughly every 2 hours. Knowing that we'd then also need to be up and cheerful to see the kids off to school. Juggling that + full time work, medical appointments, random A&E emergencies and trying to maintain a sense of normalcy for the DC's lives almost ran us into the ground. And that was with two very committed adults living and caring along with the DC who loved their GP and helped out as much as they could (DH and I didn't want them to slide into becoming mini carers. They were great and had a lovely relationship with GP).

I remember realising how much life had shrunk when the only time I could take a breath was when walking the dog in the 30 minutes when the carers arrived to help in the morning. So It's often not about people being unwilling, it's that the reality of sandwich generation + work + the emotional and physical toll of being hands on, competent carers for those with complex needs can become untenable. In some ways it was easier for us than friends who I've seen running the two households to provide care. In the end, it was only when my fil's health meant that he finally needed to move to a home that I realised that his care level required a team rather than two people who were loving and willing but who were out of their depth and at end of their rope. That's when the penny dropped. I have already had the conversation with my kids that I don't ever, ever want them to take on a similar caring to role for me.

Unfortunately because of how women are socialised I think they are less likely to say no.

I am possibly autistic and have a complex relationship with my parents - especially my mother. I have been very clear I will not care for them. I will help with admit etc if they are sensible.

If either of them are stupid enough to refuse carers that they really need to their own detriment I have said I will just leave them to it.

If they want to play carer chicken it won’t be me that blinks first.

Thank god my kids are adult. They are a huge help. They will take turns visiting, do some of the tech support and just generally give me a break. I take one with me when I stay to dilute the experience. Increased my chances of deferring the stand up fight which ends in tears.

But I’m not retiring while she’s alive. She’d swallow me whole.

Absolutely resonates, I'm a sandwich carer. Kids moving towards end of KS3 and KS5, plus Dad in late 80s. He moved into a retirement complex within last 2 years, but I do his shopping, all life admin - bills, gifts for people, ordering and collecting prescriptions etc.
I downshifted jobs about 5 years ago, to 4 days and no more trekking up and down the country.
It's tricky, just about keeping my head above water, but as I said to a colleague today, I don't want to moan as it means he's still around to do things for.

@Dominicus even if there is space who would look after the elderly person, or would they be on their own during the day whilst everyone is out at work/school?

If our homes were bigger, I’m sure more people would live with an elderly parent.
Families struggle with our standard 3 bedroom houses where one bedroom is a box room. No room for an elderly relative.

I'm still recovering from the physical and emotional fallout of losing my Dad (83) to cancer 2 years ago. He was given a life expectancy of under 12 months but ended up dying in just under 5. He become immobile very quickly, and I ended up co-ordinating his care, doing all his admin, his housework and just spending every moment that I could with him - on top of having my own home, children, dogs, grandchildren and running a business alongside DH. My sister was as much help as a wet paper bag. Then when he died, there was the horror of emptying his flat quickly, dealing with his personal effects and finances, arranging a funeral with a difficult sister battling every step of it... and Dad's family kicking off about it all too.

I'm not sure I'll ever be who I used to be before. And I will never expect my own DC to care for me, I will go into a home as soon as I need a committed level of support. Their lives won't go on hold to enable me to live mine.

It's a sad that nothing has changed since that article was written in 2017

My elderly Dad refused at 84 to have cancer treatment. They said it would have have extended his life by around 18 months. One of the hospice nurses said she wished more people were like him.

This article vg
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/05/good-daughter

Sorry that should read NO suitable single-storey housing round here, let alone wheelchair accessible doorways etc.

Not sure what it would do to my marriage either, especially since I think my mother could well live another 10 years thanks to antibiotics, good care and vaccinations.

God I hate that other cultures do it better stuff, it's usually trotted out by Conservative MPs, who don't seem to be lining themselves up to look after their demented parents.

My mother needs two people and huge amounts of equipment. How would that work with her living in our house, me working, teenage children, too many stairs. We'd all have to move house and there's single-level housing round here, so my kids would have to move schools away from their friends and in the middle of GSCE and A levels. How does that work?

My lovely friend did move her mother in with her and it was all fine until she left to go for a well-deserved weekend away, leaving her mother with the teenagers. The mother fell headfirst down the stairs and died. Pretty traumatic for everyone. The house just wasn't suitable.

saying ‘other countries do it better’ often just means ‘women have to give up work in those countries’

I am sick of hearing how we should push ourselves through extensive education to get a proper career, somehow not compromise on motherhood but still maintain said career progression, and then throw job and kids to the wind to tend our elderly, all the while looking insta-fabulous. When society puts the same demands on men I will think about listening.

Unless carents leave pays my pension contributions, then I am not much interested. My DPs both got to retire age 60 - DF got offered his full work pension to take early retirement, and had a lovely life in their 60s-70s travelling and enjoying themselves.
I am mid 50s and trying to stay in paid employment for at least 2-3 more years having taken VR from my long term job last year. Both DPs could do with more support now, thankfully as we are in Scotland DM gets carers 4 times a day. I have compressed my work hours to do 4 long days and one half day so I can go at least once a week - one hour drive each way. They have stacks of money though and could get loads of care in if they wanted, but they don’t.
I can see carents leave for a short term well defined health issue or crisis, but one of the myriad of issues is that elderly people’s health conditions are rarely like this and the more dependent they get on you - if you can take time off for a short period - the less they will be capable of doing longer term. Sounds harsh but we need to be thinking about our own retirement and care plans as well.

An Italian friend told me she thought it was far better here than in Italy, as they don’t have things like managed apartments in retirement centres and so on. She is a doctor absolutely run ragged looking after her mum, as there is very little state support because it is assumed daughters will do it all

saying ‘other countries do it better’ often just means ‘women have to give up work in those countries’