Why do elderly people refuse to drink sufficient fluid?

Lidl does a no-alcohol gin for about 1/4 of the ridiculous price of the Sipsmith one.

There are a lot of alcohol free/v low drinks now. You might need tp try and few to find one he considers a treat to get a result. If he likes ale Ghost Ship has a good version, for lager we like Peroni 0%. As well as whisky does he like G&T? If so you could try Sipsmith.
What about a mocktail?
Good luck with finding a solution, elderly parents can really stretch your solution finding skills!

I don't think anyone could possibly believe that, so why say it?

Madness, it’s like the elderly think it’s fine to have treacle piss. Yeah it’s totally normal to have dark brown pee and not drink any fluids.

Do let us know how you get on, even a private message if the thread gets too long.

Please read my post about my experiences last year. It was exceptional, but then I never shower more than once a week because I don't go out. I have had stand in carers when mine has been away, and some of them just don't know what to do if they don't shower you! Even the ones who advertise they will hoover and make meals, don't always do it. If your mum's carers don't like the idea, help them if you can, because the problem with folks who think they know it all is that they may set out to prove you wrong.

I don't know why they tell you that. You cannot generalise about people and dementia patients are no different. Having dementia shouldn't make any difference.

One thing I know, giving someone a shower is quicker. They don't have to spend a lot of time, and if there are infections in folds, she is not being dried properly.

The skin is an organ, the largest organ in the body. It's function is to protect the organs inside the body from damage and infection. It must not be allowed to crack or tear. It must not be allowed to get soggy, and lose the natural oils, because then it cannot protect the body.

I do not go along with the advice you are given by dementia experts. I am sure they mean well, but you have to consider the role of the skin and in older people the rate at which skin cells replace themselves is slow to nothing at 94. As soon as we are born we lose skin cells, but babies replace them rapidly. Even though babies replace cells fast, it is now recommended that they not be bathed each day. That is what I have read and heard. Children get mucky, so need a good wash if they cannot have baths. If babies are recommended not to have a bath each day, think how much more important it is that the elderly don't. We age because our bodies take longer and longer to replace body cells. If adults were able to slow the speed of aging down, everyone would be looking young naturally and wouldn't need face lifts. We would also live forever, God forbid.

No one is the same. I can only say don't shower more than once a week, for a week and see the difference. You will probably not have the support of carers, because wet wipes and cleansers take a lot longer. Of course when you take away the shower, carers don't have a lot to do for the client. Try it for a week, at least. Look after the skin as though it was the most precious thing in the world.

Another note about white petroleum jelly in the baby department is that it doesn't smell as much as vaseline's. You also lose skin cells on the lips, which is why they get thin as we get older, and people try botox. I use the petroleum gel a couple of times a day. You can get fancy chap stick, but it is expensive and really the same thing. It won't do anyone any harm to try.

True, but I have traced my family tree back a few hundred years, and actually many of them lived into their mid eighties, which surprised me. They didn't have wet wipes, granted, but then they didn't have bathrooms and running hot water either, but they still managed to survive without them - and the NHS.

About wet wipes instead of baths and showers: I shower once a week because I am disabled and housebound now having suffered a rare disease. I cannot stand for long or walk far. I don't go out much on my own because I don't have the courage to take the wheelchair across the main road, so I don't get dirty enough to shower every day. I do pay attention to my skin. Only people out and about get dirty, mostly from traffic exhausts. My feet don't work but they look perfect. They have to, so that I can see any spots which don't heal. Every bit of my skin is examined for the least little spot.

I survived last winter without hot water or central heating from Christmas 2023 to end June 2024: almost 7 months.

It is a long story, but I shan't bore you with it. Why I mention it is because all that time, over 6 months I had two portable electric heaters and a kettle. I didn't shower, or wash my hair for all that time. Funny isn't it that you can find websites which go to the houses of disabled people to help bathe them, but there isn't anywhere where you can go and have a shower when you cannot have one at home.

I fared very well. I used wet wipes, cleanser, moisturiser and my skin was without sores or breaks in all that time. My hair was fine too. I used a dry shampoo occasionally and brushed it out. It suffered nothing for not being washed. In fact, I think the natural oils in the hair helps. I might have gone to hairdressers had I been able to take out the wheelchair, but sitting in a hairdresser chair is too long.

Not only did I discover that I didn't need to wash my body each day (I have only ever washed my face in cold water, and do not dry it. I have no frown lines or wrinkles), BUT I also realised that millions of people all over Britain have to survive with a couple of small heaters and a kettle. Some have families.

There must be many families that wish there was someplace they could go and have a nice hot bath or shower, but there are none, unless you belong to an expensive gym and can use their's, but then you wouldn't need to, would you?

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I don’t particularly either, but I drink it because I know I should.

Too much effort to go to the toilet and fear of falling.

Our forebears must have got something right, or we wouldn't be here.

They didn't have wet wipes (thr primary ingredient of which, by the way, is water). What they did have was much lower life expectancy.

And they only had to get enough things right to survive long enough to have children. Their success or otherwise with old age is entirely irrelevant to us being here.

I consider it common sense not to shower each day. I am not alone in that.

There are very poor places in the world, where the people cannot afford the fancy and expensive things in our chemist shops, yet they seem to manage on the old fashioned treatments we have replaced with similar things with a hefty price on them, making millions for the manufacturers.

Try a week without using water, just wet wipes and cleanser, and dry with soft paper or towels if you really have to. Just because she has dementia is not reason to believe she needs showering each day. How dirty does she get?

People only need daily showers when they are working, travelling in trains with heaters under seats, and cars belching fumes.

I never saw fungal infection in the folds of skin on elderly people. It only happens when the skin is not dried properly and soap is used. If you use cleanser instead of water, you cannot get soggy skin with fungus.

Just think about it:

how dirty does a 94 year old lady get? Why use water? Wet wipes are better, or even cleanser which can be gently wiped away. Even in the groin area you don't have to use water every time. The pads are supposed to stay dry near the skin. White petroleum jelly is all you need. You see E45 on display in all hospital. They get it for next to nothing from the manufacturers and people think if the hospital uses it it must be best. Half of it is white petroleum jelly, whipped up by machines to make it lighter. It also has chemicals to keep it lighter, and not all of those are good for everyone.

Wet wipes or cleanser when the pad is changed - and the pamper type are better at that age than the pull ups, easier and less fuss to change. Most of those stay dry anyway, so cleanser or wipes are really all that is needed. You just have to examine the skin very carefully each day to make sure there are no breaks in it where infection can get in.

Put plenty of moistureiser on, Expensive is not always better. Half of E45 is vaseline - white petroleum jelly - whipped up to be lighter. Lighter doesn't make much difference to the body, whereas white petroleum jelly from the baby department in supermarkets with no VAT, is really much better.

Every time your mother is washed and dried, the precious skin cells which take so long to replace in elderly people are washed and dried away, and some people think the harder they wipe, the drier.

There is something else I find in caring for dementia patients: being given lots of apperient to make their bowels work. The sachets are very good, and it says on the pack they can take up to five a day. I have actually seen people forcing the dementia patient to drink it all up in orange juice, despite her shoving it away, and the carer saying she has to have that four times a day! You are tempted to say: 'would you like to be treated like that?'. Of course not. The elderly are very little different to the young, just more helpless.

One cause of malnutrition and weight loss in the elderly is that they are given so much powder laxative the food goes through them so fast the osmosis process doesn't stand a chance. Too much is is just like a 'dose of salts'. Food has to go through the body slowly, so that the good can be absorbed into the blood stream, but too often the kidneys and liver work overtime getting rid of the good, like chucking the baby out with the bath water.

Incontinence is a problem for many, but it needn't be. Wet wipes are kinder to old skin - and young - and drying the skin is not so traumatic. I have seen poor old bodies scrubbed dry and taking even more dead cells with it.

Our forebears must have got something right, or we wouldn't be here.

Sorry about the length, but I love caring for the elderly. I think it is a privilege to help someone into the next life peaceably, as important as the midwife helping babies into this one.

And yet the advice from the dementia specialist who visits my mum (94 with vascular dementia) is to make sure the carers shower her every day because she’s at increased risk from infection from fungal residue in skin folds, and from skin infections abused by incontinence.

If you possibly can manage with adult wet wipes, don't let him shower every day. The skin is an organ in itself, and is the only protection the body has for the vital organs. According to the Dove ads this week, we lose a third of our skin cells when we shave under arms. It gives a rough estimate of how many a man loses in a lifetime of shaving..

Skin cells are shed from the moment of birth, and quickly replaced by new, but as old age approaches, the replacing has slowed down, and the elderly do not replace shed skin cells at the same rate as the young.

What that means is that showering every day weakens the skin and it breaks down, and that replacement of skin cells is even slower. Moisturiser is so important, but best to tackle the cause, often over-washing. If he smells, it might be caused by something else.

It isn't just for the elderly. The replacement of body cells anywhere slows down as we age.

sorry missed the post about not drinking tea, so deleted
You could offer him a mug of bovril mid afternoon or a horlicks/ovaltine/cocoa before bed too.

Thank you for your reply. Have you thought about discussing with your GP about the surgery putting a line in for a saline drip when FIL is dehydrated? It would be helpful to you both, and you would not have to send him to hospital. Most surgeries have a phlebotanist who takes blood, and they should be trained to set up a saline solution, and you already have skill with emptying a catheter.

I think that would stop a whole lot of your stress and worry.

Smelly urine is a sign of infection. I can't remember what the drug is, but it comes in powder form which is dissolved and the dose repeated 72 hours later, and it works wonders. It means FIL won't need to take antibiotic pills for a week!

What about oral care? If he is not drinking much, his mouth will be very dry, and that causes difficulty in speaking. There are synthetic saliva sprays that help. The best one is Glandosane, but it is impossible to get in the UK now. It is aerosol spray. The other sprays can sting, and deposit it in one place. If he can clean his teeth now, and wash his mouth out, he may not be able to do that in the future, so to make sure he is cleaning his mouth properly, just have a check for a second to get him used to the idea of someone else having to do that.

There are some ear drops you can buy over the counter to control any build up of wax. If you see him 'banging' his ear with his hand, it could be earache, just as when a baby does it.

The same goes for temperature check: if the back of the neck is warm, then so is he, so extra covers are not necessary.

Dry skin acts like shrink wrap over the small bones of the feet and hands and that causes nerves to be trapped between them. Make sure his skin is always moisturised, so that his feet and hands stay moveable!

Also, and this applies to all ages, keep a jar of vaseline handy for shins and elbows. Those are areas without muscle, skin on bone. The shin bone gets knocked and very often when a lump is formed, the skin splits and it can take months to heal. If you keep a jar handy and apply it immediately, the skin will stretch with the bump and not split. It doesn't have to be vaseline: if you bark your shin in the kitchen, any oil will do. Cheap supermarket petroleum jelly is as good as vaseline, and a lot cheaper. It does so much good.

There are so many Victorian tried and tested cures. Bicarbonate of Soda is a Godsend, especially for bathing and washing, yet costs so little.

What you are doing is skilled work, and I am sure you would be welcomed as a carer anywhere. Get someone else to do your housework and take a training course for a certificate. You may think you will never, ever again, but chances are you will, because there are so few who can.

If FIL prefers you to care for him, then get someone in to relieve you of other work. A vacuum cleaner weighs a ton when you are caring for an elderly person, and a lot housework chores are formidable when you are caring for someone, and you don't have to do it if you claim the benefit.

Does your doctor test the rest of FIL's family for kidney problems? Sometimes it is genetic.

Gin and tonic with lots of ice and lemon. And without the gin?
Also - and this sounds horrible - I don't like the taste of water, but half water, half tonic and ice has a lovely 'bite' to it and is really refreshing!

Ice cream worked with my late mother.

Any sign of weakness and the posters on here will have a go regardless. We could start our own club.

What do you consider a 'good quality of life?'. Everyone likes to think they can give someone a good quality of life, but for what reason?

Do you want him to live longer? If you do, why? Have you discussed it with him? How much longer does he hope to live?

If you had the same physical problems when you age, what would you like others to do for you?

Sometimes we are so afraid of our loved ones dying, that we try to keep them alive by restricting the very things they want to enjoy.

At the moment, he is entirely dependent on you to provide all his needs, because he cannot go out and shop for himself. If he is not allowed to choose what he eats or drinks, and is made to eat and drink 'healthily' what good would that do him in the long run?

You have to make up your mind whether you are trying to prolong his life or help him enjoy what time he has left.

No one says that is easy. In fact, it is very difficult. You are right to care for him at home. Visiting him in a care home would be as stressful for you as caring for him at home. If he has any disability benefit, use if to buy help to do the things that are running you ragged. It is what it is given for. If he is living in your home, not his, then you should be able to get more benefit for him, which could relieve you of even more stress.

Keeping an elderly person alive isn't always the best thing. I don't know why people send their elderly loved ones to hospital. The NHS doesn't have to beds, staff, or inclination to look after the elderly. Visit a gerontology ward at your hosptial. Count how many patients and how many nurses/assistants there are. Look in the bathrooms: they are often used to store old equipment. There are not enough people to help the patients eat at mealtimes. A lick and a promise once a day is a wash. Non nursing staff come round with breakfast, usually a bowl of cornflakes, and often taken away again. Cups of tea and water rest on bedtables all day.

No one would ever say an elderly person is better off in hospital, and unless you are sure that in a care home each resident gets at least one hour one to one with an assistant (and often a language barrier) then paying someone for an hour or two a day to help you is more than the elderly get in hospital or care home. You cannot do better than your best, and if he wants something that might be bad for him, let him have it, because he is getting better care from you than anywhere else.

In that case, you should stop trying to force him to drink so much, especially if he is balking against it. Unless he has a choice of food and drink to choose from, and he can pick what he wants, you will find yourself fighting a losing battle.

Give him whatever he wants to drink. He is too disabled for restricting what he eats and drinks to matter all that much. You cannot make him live longer by not giving him what he wants. You will just wear yourself out. At least with a stoma you don't have to keep changing the sheets and washing them, that is so long as the fit is right. A catheta might be necessary, but that is how infection gets to the bladder and kidneys, so even if he drank more, it would not stop him having kidney failure.

If his temperature is raised, then he may need antibiotics. If you test his urine each day and observe the colour, and it is fine, he can really have what he wants, because some alcohol which he enjoys will not do much harm, unless he wants to live another 10 years or so!

I suppose he can swallow without difficulty?

You’ll have to live with him and give him tea constantly. Maybe he doesn’t like the water and would prefer something nicer