Father gravely ill - mother reluctant to continue treatment

It's not easy.
Don't "borrow trouble from tomorrow" by worrying about what might not happen. It's not really the sort of thing where extensive pre-fretting will make a measurable difference if it does. Though it's a natural response in many of us to want to claw back some control by feeling we have a plan for any eventuality.

IME illness and death can bring out some very odd behaviour in people. Personally, once I'd worked that out, and saw it as a typical thing to expect, I found it was easier to cope with it (99% of the time, by just ignoring people, i.e. thinking, "that's mad," and saying nothing but "Hmm" in response).

Best of luck. If you can find a sensible older friend IRL to discuss this with - old enough to have been through this already - the right person can be very supportive and helpful.

The Admiral nurse supporting us when we were in a similar situation said that she often sees husbands/wives completely disengage with a dying spouse, as my Mum did. All I'd say is ... spend some time with your Dad, as much as you realistically can, and with any other friends and family who are supporting you. That's easier said than done, of course. I didn't have an easy relationship with my Dad at all and neither did my DH, but the moments that we concentrated on Dad have formed a small store of memories that have helped me grieve. Nothing remarkable happened in those moments but they were authentic and quiet. I suspect you know that after your Dad has gone, whenever that is, things are going to get really tough with your Mum, but honestly you can only cross those bridges (including all the flashpoints of grief, resentment, anger, whatever) when you get to them. Sending 💐.

Ask the medics what they’d do in your position, i.e with a much loved but gravely ill relative. That’s what I did in similar circs.

I hope you're OK OP. I had a similar episode with my DF being about to die and my mum being very hard work. Nobody is at their best at these times, but it's really difficult when you're trying to support someone who is inherently draining to deal with.

Do they have any sort of end of life wishes written down? I had to very pointedly ask for my Dad's then it didn't make any sense.

Be kind to yourself and I hope you've had a rest.

Just get through the next wee while OP.

I agree that if the Drs are initiating this conversation, it's because they can see what's probably coming. Please be brave and think about what your father would want.

I have a very dependent FIL, who totally relied on MIL to do everything, domestically and administratively. That's the way their marriage worked, for decades. Since she has died, he has declined and become incredibly needy - relying on my SIL, asking her continuously to do things for him that he could do himself etc and being very demanding - but he doesn't see it, because for him this is normal. Everything he says and does is in his own interest, not anyone else. He often makes comments like that of your mum's - little snippets of thought that give away how self-focused he is. I guess that's survival tactics.

Im sorry you are going through this @Kettlebanana. It's a heartbreaking situation. I think you are being a bit harsh on your mum. She's probably worried, frightened and not really thinking about what she's saying. She's probably got 101 things that she's worried about. Remember, it's easier to be angry with someone than to grieve or to be afraid.

When my dh was in ICU a few years ago, and I was told he had a 5% chance of survival, my dd was an immense source of support.
But not everyone can handle being in an ICU area, and able to support family members in such an environment.
OP please be kind to yourself and family members.
I was ok and so was my dh eventually, but I wouldn’t wish such a scenario on anyone.

Having a close relative in intensive care is a horrific and unreal situation. I don’t think any of us are quite our normal selves in that spot.

It’s very possible your parents have discussed this between themselves. DH and I have been crystal clear with each other that anything that reduces our mental state, or ability to live independently, is a no go.

It doesn’t sound like it will be long for your DF. Take the time to be with him, and try not to not hold stressed behaviours and hypotheticals against your mum. Take care OP.

Does she have sole PoA?

Even if she does, in the UK this merely gives her the right to be informed and express an opinion about treatment. The final decision rests with the medical team.

OP, I'm sorry - it's a horrible situation to be in. But as PP have said the discussion about 'is it worth continuing?' is usually a sign that it isn't. And anyway the decision is out of your hands, so concentrate on what you can do. Be with your dad when you're able, talk to him, hold his hand, say the things you'll regret not saying.

Maybe they have had the conversation about what would happen if.... I've got a signed advance directive for example after strongly disagreeing with doctors about my late mothers choices. You are the problem not your mother.

The relationship between adult child and parent is very different between spouses. They have shared a life together. I think, even if they haven't directly discussed it, your Mum probably has a better idea than you think about what your father would find an acceptable quality of life. He might hate to have her caring for him in that way.

Give your mum a break. Her husband is gravely ill, I doubt much that comes out of her mouth will be sensible.

Start by making it clear that this won't happen

I’m so sorry. How old is your dad? Was he in good health before this?

A day at a time for now. I'm very sorry.

It sounds like you’re focused on what would happen if he recovers and that’s unlikely so it’s not worth it. After 4 days with your mum you’re obviously feeling the strain.
No-one can expect anyone else to be their carer without them choosing to do so. I would stop talking about all that you’d do for your dad if he survives, as it doesn’t seem you’d take the same approach with your mum.

I'm sorry to hear that you are in this situation. I would encourage you to really listen to what the doctors tell you and be open to being guided by them. It's really natural for your mum to feel afraid about the future so please don't hold that against her or blame her for any eventual outcome. You are all under the most immense stress.

The only thing you need to think about now is being with your father and supporting each other.

Sorry you are in this situation.
The medical staff might ask what the family think/want but in my experience thats just to help you feel involved. Any decisions of further treatment will be made on a clinical basis so they might ask what your opinion is, but you or your mum won’t be the decision maker. They won’t stop treatment if they think there is a chance of recovery.

It doesn't matter what she says at the moment. Nothing she says now about being 'hard work' will force you to be running around after her every whim two years from now. In the future, you can choose how involved you are and stick to your boundaries. Right now though, I would just assume this is a bad joke in a terrible situation.
Does she have sole PoA? If not, I can't see how she'd have the decision making power to 'let him die' against medical advice. This situation seems unlikely to arise.
I appreciate it seems like she is being unreasonable not wanting to be a carer for someone she loves greatly (assuming their marriage is absolutely amazing), but you can't make her, and she is allowed to make her own decisions.
If a very specific situation did arise where she was saying she doesn't want treatment X because she can't cope with caring, and you DO want treatment X, I think you can really only push for it if you are prepared to have your DF move into your own house and be his full-time carer yourself.
All the best OP. I'm sure it won't come to any situation like the one you're worrying about.

However big a loss your DF will be to you, it’s is nothing to what your mother will suffer. Have a little compassion for her as she struggles to cope with the grief, loneliness and dread of her own inability to instantly assume responsibility for all the things DF did in the relationship.

You seem to be critising her for thinking about the support she might have to offer him at the same time as complaing about support she might need from you?

I agree with PP, if the medical team are offering choices, they're thinking continuing treatment isn't in his best interests.

You do not have to look after your mother. One of the things I have told my children is I don’t want them to look after me.

Just to re state what everyone else has said, that if they are already talking about your father not pulling through, then he probably won’t. I wouldn’t bother too much now about what your mother is saying. She is probably too upset to be talking rationally. You can have conversations with your mother later which ever way the outcome is.
I have already had a conservation about my end of life with my children. I haven’t written it down but they know my wishes.

Gently, would her point of view on this be that you are unable to see the severity of the situation, and are not being realistic in your view that this might end with him being basically fine, just needing a bit of extra support.