Father won’t accept they need help

Trying to figure out how to do it

After two serious chest infections, my 95 year old DM has started to suffer from short term memory loss and confusion and has become very frail physically. She had a couple of falls (which she does not remember) and each time she had forgotten to wear her alarm bracelet. She is adamant that she is fine and got very upset when I tried, very gently, to discuss her memory problems with her.

So I wrote to her GP who has known her for over 30 years, setting out my concerns and saying that DM did not know I was writing. The GP responded by calling DM in for "a check up" (which I attended). She gave DM a memory test, and arranged for blood tests and a brain scan. We are going back in a few weeks to discuss the results and what should happen next. DM was much more willing to accept she has problems when talking to the GP - although she is still under the impression that she is doing much more for herself than she actually is.

In the meantime I have arranged for a carer to come in every day, cook her a meal and check she is ok. DM has accepted this as a temporary measure on the grounds that she has been unwell.

I feel for you. I live 4 hours away and I am finding this all very difficult, especially as it has happened so suddenly to DM who has always been so mentally capable and physically fit.

Bear in mind that if your mum would be accepting of help, she could potentially be helped to have it, separately from your df. 8 know that's not really how it works, but in theory at least you could get someone in to help your mum whether your df agrees or not. I think it's helpful at least to consider their needs independently, even if in reality they operate as a unit.

Can I message you?

You can take your mum to the doctors for the appointment, write a note with concerns and pass to the doctor discreetly. We had POA so were able to discuss firsthand with reception why we were going so they knew it was to do with memory and possible dementia.

At the point of memory loss, you basically have to do it for them - because as you have discovered, otherwise they keep forgetting. Or don't even realise there is a problem.

Getting a diagnosis is helpful, even if it turns out there is no treatment, in terms of getting other people to take you seriously. There is a big difference between 'mum has dementia, she doesn't realise she needs help' and 'mum has a bit of short term memory loss but says she's fine' in terms of getting professionals on board.

We had this with inlaws. FIL becoming forgetful he was tested and after a couple of years diagnosed with mixed dementia, MIL crying for help. Constantly loosing things especially creditcards and getting scammed. It came to a head when MIL's behaviour began to become strange.

They live an hour away from family. We gave them a ultimatium of moving to assisted living nearby. They moved and it all fell apart in a few months. And MIL is now in a care home as she was put into respite as a break from FIL. Whilst there she tried to kill someone and was placed under emergency DOLS. She'd been under memory clinic and had had scans and we were waiting for the result. Mental health team were called and she was diagnosed with vascular dementia. She never went back home and has been in a home for nearly a year now. FIL copes okay in assisted living in his home with us doing his washing and shopping, they give him his meds regularly and he has a homecare visit once a week.

I would start with getting mum to the doctors and the memory clinic. Its only going to get worse and she will not be able to care for dad when that happens.

Do they have attendance allowance? We use this to pay for the homecare. Then the issue of money is taken out of the equation.

Also as soon as we had the dementia diagnosis, we discouraged the use of the car. When they moved we removed the car from them. FIL would have no idea of the new address and would inevitably go back to his old address. They live next door to a hospital and doctors so can walk mostly everywhere when needed.

@NetZeroZealot If nothing is working, you just need to step back and go back to 'just' visiting daughter mode and not helping out. Only help when asked, if your father has capacity, there is little you can do except prepare to pick up the pieces (if you want) when it all goes tits up. I say this as someone who lives-in with aged parent who has no capacity due to dementia. I do literally everything, but parent is still convinced they are more than capable despite not being able to use a computer, phone, Internet, money, drive, cook, washing machine etc! I find meditation helpful.

As their cleaner is lovely, does she have any friends?

My DM built half her support network from her cleaner. Cleaner slowly did more, cleaner's husband did any handyman jobs, cleaner has a friend who works as a carer...

I feel for you - having looked after my elderly father I remember it well. We got the ball rolling by requesting a visit from adult social care. Her recommendations for my father de-personalised the issue and made him more readily accept help.

Like you, fortunately my mother had employed a cleaner before she died, so that was a massive help. I would definitely start with contacting Adult Social Care at your Local Authority, stress to them that you feel they are at risk because your father will not comply with having any reasonable help and take it from there.

I’d start with the help they have accepted- their cleaner. They would be able to do fridge sorting, assistance with use by dates and what needs to go on the shopping list, general tidying and maybe a little cooking/ meal prep (like a plate of sandwiches for later). It would mean someone there more often and who could be asked to help to look for things.
it sounds like what your parents need at the moment is companionship care, not a traditional carer, and I know many independent (rather than agency) cleaners are happy to do more housekeeping and companionship

Tricky. My parents did wear theirs. To begin with, they took them off at night in the same way they'd take off wristwatches, but when it was pointed out to them that nighttime was exactly when they were likely to need them they did start keeping them on. I think I've been very fortunate with my parents compared to many here and many other people my age I meet.

Re the car, I was absolutely amazed that my Dad's GP and optician seemed extremely relaxed about giving him the go ahead to go on driving after he had a series of TIAs, was becoming very frail and was in the early stages of macular degeneration. The DVLA suspended his licence for six months because of the TIAs, but then gave it back! I was very worried, but he died shortly after that so we didn't have to intervene.

The loss of independence when he couldn't drive hit him really hard psychologically and seemed to completely outweigh all other considerations. I was taken aback, as he had always been a very sensible, law-abiding, altruistic person. I think I underestimated how much of his sense of self came from being a driver. Turning into someone who depended on others being able to give lifts, or having to get a taxi, was a real blow to his self-esteem, even though decades earlier he'd told me when they moved to the island that they'd thought carefully about where to live and chose somewhere where everything was in walking distance in case the time ever came when he couldn't drive. Easy to say when it's a distant possibility. (Also, they'd not considered that if he wasn't able to drive he probably wouldn't be able to walk very far either.)

If someone does have progressing dementia, in some cases there are medications (Memantine, Donepezil) which can improve the symptoms and do a lot for quality of life. Would this be an incentive to get the memory assessment?

@DenholmElliot11great post-ageee 100%. Really it's the only solution here.

Tricky. There are a lot of different issues in your list, which probably require different ways of tackling them. And tbh not many of them fall directly under the ‘care’ label - some are ‘life admin’, some are not urgent (many people live in messy houses with ood did in the fridge, others are probably more urgent.

so for me, I would try and deal with the issues seperately and in order of urgency.

top priority has to be safety: how safely can they live in their house and how can it be made safer? Have they ever had a care assessment? Has your mum been assessed for her memory loss? Or your dad for his frailty ? Does he struggle in the house? That’s not imposing help on them - it’s making an objective assessment of whether they need help and what kind. your dad taking his medication correctly is part of this, it’s personal care and living safely.

second for me would be your dads driving. how serious are you when you say he should not be? This is one that would keep me awake at night. Does he have any medical conditions that should be disclosed to the DVLA? How much do they rely on driving for transport? Is he having small accidents?

for the house stuff, like I say a lot of people do live like this. How do they feel about you tidying / filing / rearranging / declutterring / taking on admin for them? Do they recognise that it’s an issue? The way DH and SIL tackled this was for DH to basically get into everything - bank account reviews to work out what he was spending on (there were lots of old subscriptions and direct debits still going out, he was paying for two phone subscriptions etc), filing years of paperwork and setting up a new filing system for FIL. Also decluttering the house, removing rugs / stools etc, and getting handrails etc put in. Also set up a taxi account, as we had to take his keys / car off him.

But tbh the whole thing depends on SIL popping in 2-3 times a week to check the mail, deal with admin, remind him about any medical rdv and take him to them, check the fridge for ood food, stick a wash on and just generally keep an eye on things. He also has carers going in three times a day, but they don’t do any of the above. Do you have any other siblings or anyone able to pop in?

You need to think of a way to get him to champion the idea so leverging mums A&E / memory issues

You go with mum needs help and you Dad need to solve her problem.

Look at all that mum is doing
and she is just out of hospital
and do you not love her
and I do so am very worried about her
and do you not want what is best for her
and i do think she needs every day help
and do you not think A&E shook her
and she may say that she is fine now
but she ended up in A&E that worried her
so man up
and make sure that you get someone in who will make her like easier
that is what a man who loves his woman would do

And guilt trip him into believing it was his idea to begin with and push what a hero will be for organisning it

Can you knobble your DF’s car so that he can’t drive it or take it away “to the garage” and just keep it at yours?

If your DF is driving when he shouldn’t and getting angry at the suggestion of extra care, could his cognition be declining too?

And a tip I’ve seen on here is to introduce the carer as a friend and go with them the first couple of times and all have a cup of tea together, then the carer jeeps going but finds a few things to help out with.

I would suggest memory assessments for both Mum and Dad.

It will help you in the future if Mum has a formal diagnosis of dementia so proper capacity assessments get done, instead of minimizing as 'memory loss'.

And while she may be worse than Dad, if he isn't remembering his meds and hasn't got insight into his problems, he may well have a memory problem too.

My own experience and on MN, about 20% of elderly people are planning for the future, make changes are a willing to get appropraite help and then rest are actively refusing help.

Things you can try

• get GP to talk to them
• referals to memory clinic
• referals to falls clinic for Mum and Dad if he is at risk. The falls clinic is really good.
• Now is the time to get things in place ‘just while Mum is recovering’

You could put in a safeguarding referral to your local authority detailing your mum’s memory issues and her fall risks. Nothing may come of it as she may not have enough issues to be consuu it served a vulnerable adult - but it’s worth a shot.

After that unfortunately if they both have mental capacity there’s not much can be done without consent

id be calling DVLA about your dad - there was a man like that in my local area - he ended up killing a young woman when he ploughed into a shop. You have a duty to report anyone who you do not think should be driving