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Elderly parents

Should my mum with advanced Parkinson’s be in a care home?

142 replies

BurntOutCarer · 03/02/2025 17:37

I’ve put off writing this message for several years - reading the ‘so exhausted waiting for someone to die’ thread many times, knowing I’m not alone. But now I’m a at complete breaking point and need an external viewpoint.

My mum has advanced Parkinson’s disease. Diagnosed 11 years ago. She’s been widowed for many years. I’ve been responsible for her wellbeing for the past 8 years. There is no one to help with her care but me. My sibling lives abroad. Mum’s sisters are in good health and live locally but refuse to help in any way or in any emergency/crisis situation. I have young children, work full time, and am often single parenting as my husband works away a lot.

Mum’s Parkinson’s is so advanced she has district nurses attend her house twice a day to connect her and disconnect her to a medication pump that administers her medication. She has a cleaner one a week.

In the last two years alone (and there have been many many other crisis’ before this) she’s been in hospital about 6 times for various health crises.

She’s currently in hospital after a second traumatic bout of delirium, confusion and hallucinations whereby she was found screaming in the streets asking strangers for help, rambling, crying etc. She’d also overdosed her antibiotics in confusion and had refused to go to hospital earlier in the week even though the intensive health service team recommended she go with them to hospital. This resulted in a call from her district nurses late one night, telling me they had to leave her to go to their next appointment, but she was a danger to herself, and I had to go over and wait with her for an ambulance that would take 12-14 hours to arrive. Having been in this situation before, and now having PTSD from the trauma, I stood my ground and refused to go. I also couldn’t go as my child was extremely ill with flu. The ambulance then arrived in 30 minutes. It was extremely stressful and is only the very tip of the iceberg to all the emergencies I get drawn into that causes untold levels of trauma. I’ve had a breakdown from the stress and my career has suffered greatly because of it.

This is Mum’s second episode of delirium since last October.

Outside of the delirium episodes, these are the sort of things that happen a lot:

gets scammed financially by scam callers
failing to renew house insurance and other
fell in her garden this month smashing her shoulder
stuck face down on her bed unable to move and almost smothering herself
repeat middle of the night crisis calls to her Careline for numerous reasons ‘is confused, feels sick, can’t move, feels faint”
completely frozen and can’t move, nevermind walk
struggling to order her food online which she’s done for years
struggling to pay bills without help
gets frozen, can’t move and can’t turn the oven off resulting in emergency calls to me where I’m expected to drop things and go (but I often can’t go)
incoherent speech and not able to follow a conversation
repeatedly ignores boundaries and turns up at my house banging on doors and windows to come in when I’m at work (I work from home in a senior role) and won’t and can’t understand why this is not acceptable
reduced ability to risk assess
her friends called me last week to say she needs a care home and they can’t cope with her during coffee outings because they have their own health needs
increasingly unable to maintain her house
hours and hours every day of complete immobility

However, due to the complex and misunderstood nature of Parkinson’s you could meet her on a good hour and she’d be very mobile and able to mask really well.

She’s obsessed with her image and looks fairly young for someone in their late seventies. She still dyes her hair blonde, insists on lipstick and although extremely thin and frail now, does not ‘look’ like an elderly, white haired lady. Which I sometimes think makes medical teams assume she’s more capable than she is.

I also think she has early stage dementia due to personality changes, but she ‘passed’ the memory test recently as her short term memory is still mostly ok.

They want to discharge her from hospital and for the first time ever I’ve said I don’t think she is safe to live at home anymore.

There are a thousand more sad episodes but I don’t have the energy to write them down.

I am a broken daughter. Utterly broken by this and feel like this can’t go on.

She is extremely resistant to a care home and has said several times the only way she is leaving her house is in a coffin. At this rate, I feel I’ll be in a coffin before her from long term stress.

Last week was the lowest of the low after a week of zero sleep with a child with flu who ended up in a&e and every single agency possibly calling me about my mother who was delirious and also in the same hospital at the same time . It was too much. It is too much.

Everyone around me is saying she is no longer safe at home and should be in a nursing home.

thoughts?

OP posts:
BurntOutCarer · 06/02/2025 13:12

HoraceGoesBonkers · 06/02/2025 12:57

I'm surprised your DM would stand out as the youngest in her late 70s; it's not that far below the average life expectancy and as a PP said, neurodegenerative illnesses can set in a lot earlier.

When my DF was looking for a home the options included a council run home and two private homes. Some of the rooms in one of the homes were covered entirely by the state payment but were smaller and didn't have a sea view. Is there anything like that on offer?

Ask people locally who have relatives in a home how they found the place.

Also, without meaning to be horrible, the average lift expectancy of a care home resident isn't that long. My DF seems to be something of an outlier as he's in his late 80s now and we're about to get into year three of his stay.

There is a turnover of residents so spaces do come up, and you'll know your DM's prognosis better than anyone on here, but two years is a long time in elderly care.

I take your point but you die with Parkinson’s not because of it. She could easily need 10+ years of care.

My mother in law is nearly 83 and apart from Alzheimer’s, I can see her continuing on for years.

My own grandmother lived to 99. I visited her for 14 years in her care home so I’m probably influenced by that. She got zero other major illnesses, and with no signs whatsoever, one day simply passed in her sleep.

I wish I had a crystal ball.

The most common age of a female care home resident in the uk is 88. The median age is also 88. The modal age at death for females is 89.

i just want my mum well and happy for however long I have left with her :-(

OP posts:
HoraceGoesBonkers · 06/02/2025 12:57

I'm surprised your DM would stand out as the youngest in her late 70s; it's not that far below the average life expectancy and as a PP said, neurodegenerative illnesses can set in a lot earlier.

When my DF was looking for a home the options included a council run home and two private homes. Some of the rooms in one of the homes were covered entirely by the state payment but were smaller and didn't have a sea view. Is there anything like that on offer?

Ask people locally who have relatives in a home how they found the place.

Also, without meaning to be horrible, the average lift expectancy of a care home resident isn't that long. My DF seems to be something of an outlier as he's in his late 80s now and we're about to get into year three of his stay.

There is a turnover of residents so spaces do come up, and you'll know your DM's prognosis better than anyone on here, but two years is a long time in elderly care.

Kilroywashere · 06/02/2025 12:11

Have you looked at the homes run by Friends of the Elderly - that is if there's one near you? My MIL was in one - part of the building was actually small flats for those who only needed occasional help, or fancied the occasional meal provided, then normal rooms and also a small dementia unit.
https://www.fote.org.uk/

Home

We provide professional, dignified & responsible care for older people. Find out more about our care homes, day care and respite care near you.

https://www.fote.org.uk

Mirabai · 06/02/2025 12:09

DPotter · 06/02/2025 11:49

Don't panic about the funding just yet. Check out the Age UK website - they have an excellent section on funding for care homes.

We had to self fund for our DM's care home as she had over the 23k savings limit. Everything went into the pot - her state pension, small occupational pension, attendance allowance, savings. She also qualified for the lower level of nursing care allowance - sorry can't recall the official name. You will have to accept as a family that the rainy day has now arrived and your DM's assets are going to be used for her care and not any inheritance. Our Dm's savings etc would have paid for just over 2 years in her care home - we had just started talking to the LA about them contributing. Like you the top up would have been about £500 per week.

Ask around for recommendations from local contacts.

Don't get tempted down the 'care-at-home-is-cheaper' road - it isn't. And there are a lot of advantages for care in a group setting. I think social isolation is wildly underestimated for frail people living at home.

I agree with all of this. The different funding sources do add up.

Mirabai · 06/02/2025 12:06

BurntOutCarer · 06/02/2025 06:55

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I decided to visit some residential homes in the local area. I’m feeling pretty down by what I saw and learnt.

Two are, at best, ok. But they smell of urine (I know they all smell to some degree) and one mixed dementia patients with non dementia patients so there was screaming and shouting in the dining room etc.

Most of the managers did show shock at my mum only being in her mid late seventies and she’d be the stand out youngest resident in any place I’ve seen so far.

Then there are the financials. There is only one local authority funded place in our town. It’s full. There was one place that seemed wonderful that I know mum would like but it is £1350 per week and the manager says the local authority will only pay £850 a week when Mums money runs out. She has enough to self fund for just about two years if I sell her house for her to pay for it. The manager of the nice place told me that once Mums money runs out, and local authority take over paying for her care, they’d turf her out because the local authority have never once agreed to pay the difference. Family paying a top up of £1800 per month is not possible.

i can’t find clear guidance or rules about local authority care placements. Can they force my mum into a residential house outside of her local area? This would mean her friends will never see her and my ability to see her and support her would be severely limited.

The manager of the nice place made me feel awful. She stated that family ‘find the money by all chipping in’ to pay for their elderly relative. Who on earth has an extra £1800 per month indefinitely to put towards their parents elderly care?

Feeling deflated and flat. CHC funding seems highly unlikely although my mother in law does receive it for dementia.

I’m even toying with the idea of asking for 24/7 care in her own home but how is that funded once her savings are gone?

Everyone is right that home care is more expensive once she needs 24/7 care.

It might be worth looking further afield but they won’t be any cheaper as the prices are standard - 1350pw is actually very good value for dementia - around me it starts at 1700.

If I were you I would proceed with the one you like and cross the bridge of funding if/when you come to it. With late stage Parkinson’s your mother may not last more than 2 years. If she does you can shop around to find the best LA care.

Finally I’m baffled by the managers’ responses to her age. I’ve been round a lot of care homes and dealt with various elderly relatives. The age range in care homes is huge. And some people develop neurodegenerative diseases earlier than others. For some the illness is gradual, long and drawn out, for others the deterioration is relatively quick. I don’t know what they’re about.

DPotter · 06/02/2025 11:49

Don't panic about the funding just yet. Check out the Age UK website - they have an excellent section on funding for care homes.

We had to self fund for our DM's care home as she had over the 23k savings limit. Everything went into the pot - her state pension, small occupational pension, attendance allowance, savings. She also qualified for the lower level of nursing care allowance - sorry can't recall the official name. You will have to accept as a family that the rainy day has now arrived and your DM's assets are going to be used for her care and not any inheritance. Our Dm's savings etc would have paid for just over 2 years in her care home - we had just started talking to the LA about them contributing. Like you the top up would have been about £500 per week.

Ask around for recommendations from local contacts.

Don't get tempted down the 'care-at-home-is-cheaper' road - it isn't. And there are a lot of advantages for care in a group setting. I think social isolation is wildly underestimated for frail people living at home.

Catgotyourbrain · 06/02/2025 10:07

coffeemonster28 · 06/02/2025 09:42

If you are a "self-funder", you can - my FIL was in a care home for 18 months and was getting attendance allowance all that time. This went towards the sum of money he was paying for the care home, together with his pension income, there was also a deferred charge on the property.

Can confirm this true too

countrygirl99 · 06/02/2025 10:03

Arran2024 · 06/02/2025 09:58

I'm talking about a more informal arrangement where you just get someone in to keep an eye on things and make meals, do laundry etc. I agree live in professional carers are way expensive.

That isn't what is needed here. OPs mum needs proper care and it wouldn't come cheap.

EducatingArti · 06/02/2025 10:02

With more informal arrangements you can run into problems with insurance and training though. Will that person be willing/ trained to deal with medication. If the client is in need of overnight care, will the carer be willing to deal with night waking etc?

Arran2024 · 06/02/2025 09:58

EducatingArti · 06/02/2025 09:48

Love in care isn't always that much cheaper, especially if you have to pay for night wakings and cover for the carer's breaks ( if the client can't be left on their own for 2 hours) You also need to factor in paying for the carer's food etc

I'm talking about a more informal arrangement where you just get someone in to keep an eye on things and make meals, do laundry etc. I agree live in professional carers are way expensive.

anyolddinosaur · 06/02/2025 09:55

Attendance allowance is available if self-funded. It can help people pay for a better care home.

EducatingArti · 06/02/2025 09:49

Lol
Live in care not love in! Although love in care sounds a wonderful option!

EducatingArti · 06/02/2025 09:48

Love in care isn't always that much cheaper, especially if you have to pay for night wakings and cover for the carer's breaks ( if the client can't be left on their own for 2 hours) You also need to factor in paying for the carer's food etc

Arran2024 · 06/02/2025 09:45

Have you considered paying for live in support? That can work out cheaper than residential care. My son's girlfriend used to do this. She got her living expenses paid and a salary. It only works if no medical care is required and the person doesn't need 24 hour care, but anyway it can allow for staying at home.

Oldermum84 · 06/02/2025 09:42

BurntOutCarer · 06/02/2025 06:59

And also - every single home in our town is MUCH more than £850 a week so how are people able to live anywhere? Is it the classic case of the VERY rich are ok and the rest of us rot?

Don't panic. Adult social care will sort out placement options. You don't have to. There will be options, likely cheaper rooms in the expensive homes. If your mum owns her own property but has under £23,250 otherwise she'll be eligible for a 12 week property disregard. Google it. She'll self fund after the 12 weeks. If over the funding threshold she'll self funding from the start (not including the d2a bed as that's nhs funded). You need to ask homes if they'll accept local authority rates once she runs out of money.

coffeemonster28 · 06/02/2025 09:42

Arran2024 · 06/02/2025 09:40

You can't get attendance allowance if you go into a home.

If you are a "self-funder", you can - my FIL was in a care home for 18 months and was getting attendance allowance all that time. This went towards the sum of money he was paying for the care home, together with his pension income, there was also a deferred charge on the property.

Arran2024 · 06/02/2025 09:40

anyolddinosaur · 06/02/2025 09:02

Is your mother receiving any benefits? If you have not claimed any now is the time to apply. She should get attendance allowance and maybe other benefits, I'm not well informed on benefits. Look at https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

You can't get attendance allowance if you go into a home.

anyolddinosaur · 06/02/2025 09:02

Is your mother receiving any benefits? If you have not claimed any now is the time to apply. She should get attendance allowance and maybe other benefits, I'm not well informed on benefits. Look at https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

NoBinturongsHereMate · 06/02/2025 08:48

The local.authority is vanishingly unlikely to pay for full time.home care - it costs more than a care home.

They shouldn't smell. Neither place my father was in did.

When the money runs out for someone in care, the local authority must either fund their existing place or a suitable alternative. You can argue against a.move if it would be detrimental (which by that stage, it usually is). Lack of social support would be an argument against an out-of-area place.

There are also immediate needs care annuities. When you sell the house, you could pay a lump sum to an insurance company. They then pay for care for as long as needed. Usually the annuity isn't for the full amount of care but for care cost minus pension income, which makes it a bit cheaper.

Bristolinfeb · 06/02/2025 08:16

BurntOutCarer · 06/02/2025 06:55

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I decided to visit some residential homes in the local area. I’m feeling pretty down by what I saw and learnt.

Two are, at best, ok. But they smell of urine (I know they all smell to some degree) and one mixed dementia patients with non dementia patients so there was screaming and shouting in the dining room etc.

Most of the managers did show shock at my mum only being in her mid late seventies and she’d be the stand out youngest resident in any place I’ve seen so far.

Then there are the financials. There is only one local authority funded place in our town. It’s full. There was one place that seemed wonderful that I know mum would like but it is £1350 per week and the manager says the local authority will only pay £850 a week when Mums money runs out. She has enough to self fund for just about two years if I sell her house for her to pay for it. The manager of the nice place told me that once Mums money runs out, and local authority take over paying for her care, they’d turf her out because the local authority have never once agreed to pay the difference. Family paying a top up of £1800 per month is not possible.

i can’t find clear guidance or rules about local authority care placements. Can they force my mum into a residential house outside of her local area? This would mean her friends will never see her and my ability to see her and support her would be severely limited.

The manager of the nice place made me feel awful. She stated that family ‘find the money by all chipping in’ to pay for their elderly relative. Who on earth has an extra £1800 per month indefinitely to put towards their parents elderly care?

Feeling deflated and flat. CHC funding seems highly unlikely although my mother in law does receive it for dementia.

I’m even toying with the idea of asking for 24/7 care in her own home but how is that funded once her savings are gone?

24 hour care at home is often more expensive than a care home. Does your Mum own her home?

BurntOutCarer · 06/02/2025 06:59

And also - every single home in our town is MUCH more than £850 a week so how are people able to live anywhere? Is it the classic case of the VERY rich are ok and the rest of us rot?

OP posts:
BurntOutCarer · 06/02/2025 06:55

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I decided to visit some residential homes in the local area. I’m feeling pretty down by what I saw and learnt.

Two are, at best, ok. But they smell of urine (I know they all smell to some degree) and one mixed dementia patients with non dementia patients so there was screaming and shouting in the dining room etc.

Most of the managers did show shock at my mum only being in her mid late seventies and she’d be the stand out youngest resident in any place I’ve seen so far.

Then there are the financials. There is only one local authority funded place in our town. It’s full. There was one place that seemed wonderful that I know mum would like but it is £1350 per week and the manager says the local authority will only pay £850 a week when Mums money runs out. She has enough to self fund for just about two years if I sell her house for her to pay for it. The manager of the nice place told me that once Mums money runs out, and local authority take over paying for her care, they’d turf her out because the local authority have never once agreed to pay the difference. Family paying a top up of £1800 per month is not possible.

i can’t find clear guidance or rules about local authority care placements. Can they force my mum into a residential house outside of her local area? This would mean her friends will never see her and my ability to see her and support her would be severely limited.

The manager of the nice place made me feel awful. She stated that family ‘find the money by all chipping in’ to pay for their elderly relative. Who on earth has an extra £1800 per month indefinitely to put towards their parents elderly care?

Feeling deflated and flat. CHC funding seems highly unlikely although my mother in law does receive it for dementia.

I’m even toying with the idea of asking for 24/7 care in her own home but how is that funded once her savings are gone?

OP posts:
fc123 · 05/02/2025 09:47

BurntOutCarer · 05/02/2025 07:23

I received an email from the complex case manager who I think was the discharge person who called me telling me they intended to discharge her soon and I pushed back saying they can’t because she is not safe at home. Anyway, the case manager said in her email that they talked with my mum and she has agreed to a 28 day placement under the D2A pathway. I think this is the 24-hour bedded care pathway 3. Used to assess long-term care needs.

I replied to this email writing a detailed, long history of her complex needs and difficulties, giving examples of things that regularly happen that prove she is not safe at home alone and at serious risk of harm. I asked that the contents of my email be shared with everyone involved in her care - social worker, Parkinson’s team, district nurse team, doctor, GP and her neurologist.

i explained that I could not do any of her care. That my sister could not do any of her care and her sisters see her about three times a year and therefore can not do any of her care.

I called mum on her mobile and she answered for the first time since she’s been in hospital. Absolutely typical that she sounded the most lucid, sane, reasonable and totally with it that she’s sounded in months. We had a calm conversation. She agreed that although she does not want to go to a residential setting, she knows she is no longer safe at home, so we have to try something different because we can’t go on like this. I have reassured her that I won’t let them place her just anywhere, that I will be her voice every step of they way and that I will do everything in my power to advocate and protect her. She was grateful and thanked me. I’ve also pointed out things I know will appeal highly to her, eg my eldest daughter will be at high school from September. They are very close. I’ve told mum she would actually get to see her more if she was in a residential setting because my daughter would be able to pop in to see her possibly on the way home from school without me the odd time because I’d know she could see mum in a safe setting. This is very true. At present, I can’t and don’t allow my oldest daughter to spend time alone with mum at her house because I can’t trust that she wouldn’t be exposed to something traumatic or something she’s not mature enough to handle. This hugely appealed to my mum.

I am concerned that with 24 hour support my mum will flourish and she’ll appear great during the 28 day placement so they’ll discharge at the end of it. My husband says there is no way she will be able to mask for that long.

At the moment all I feel is a HUGE amount of relief that mum will continue to be safe for at least another 28 days. I haven’t felt like I can breathe like this in the last 8 years.

Thank you to all the amazing people who have posted such great advice.

So good to read this update.
My old dad resisted carers and care home admission for far too long.
Different set of needs but just as awful for us as family trying to do our best and keep him safe.
Similar to you. We had another crisis and he was admitted to hospital.
Long story short he agreed to a 3 week respite stay in a lovely home near us and kept insisting he'd come home after.
He loved it so much, he chose to stay himself.
Actually said it was like being in a hotel.
He had space on his own and could socialise when he chose to. I don't think he realised how isolated he had become in his own home.
We had exactly the same thing with visits.
They were a pleasure whereas before they were preceded with dread (he had developed incontinence and had refused to wear pads etc)
Good luck

countrygirl99 · 05/02/2025 09:00

@BurntOutCarer I hope my comment about people flourishing when they finally moved to a care home hasn't worried you. I didn't mean that they suddenly improved to the extent that they could go home. More that they were more sociable, more content, more involved with others and wished they had gone in earlier.

BlueLegume · 05/02/2025 07:33

@BurntOutCarer what a relief for you. I would also say your husband is correct about her not being able to mask for the 28 days. Adding to that the staff will have seen this situation time and time again. They know people. They know that people do not just become sweet compliant oldies - they do not lose their personalities. I think one thing you could do is to avoid conversations with your Mum about ‘going home’. Change the subject, say it’s not up to you, anything to detract. Focus on the ‘isn’t this so much better than hospital’. Befriend the staff. Talk to the staff about Mum. If there is an activity co ordinator befriend them. My Dad would have said he hated all the things going on at his facility but he actually likes joining in with various activities. It passes time and reframes an afternoon sat in a chair to an afternoon being ‘busy’. Good luck and keep us updated.

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