MIL care costs

@PermanentTemporary DM had a great care home. Self funding gave choice and DM was extremely well cared for. Every member of staff was great and other residents liked DM too and she liked them. They cared for her until the end and they really helped us as a family to feel her care was the best. One great aspect was having access to a GP!! So much better NHS care than when at home. She actually got some!

What an absolute mess.

I'm with @TizerorFizz. You have very few things you can control here, but what you do have is your own money. I think you absolutely should not contribute your own income, for which you have definite needs, to someone else's care setup when they have FAR more resources than you and where you also think the current setup is actively damaging (fwiw I agree with you).

Your dh's income is much more difficult as obviously it's not yours, but you have an interest. I would focus on any joint financial goals that you have as a couple and how not having this money now will impact those goals.

Thinking about future money takes you into areas you have no control over - the will, the care setup, the value of the house, ultimate care costs, the length of MIL's life. I'd stop taking account of any of that as it will drive you mad.

This isnt easy and I'm guessing that there is a genuine risk to your marriage if you down tools and refuse to pay any more. But doing it from the basis that your MILs current care setup has demonstrably resulted in a terrible quality of life for her should give you some certainty here. Stop worrying about whether you like her or not, if the love of her children has resulted in this outcome.

As for nursing homes; yes they can be awful (I'm a community therapist working with older people and also have many extremely aged relatives) But often the actual awful impression is the reality of some of the conditions of extreme old age, not the home itself.

I agree with this my DM moved into a care home just before Christmas after an extended hospital stay. Without a doubt she has been far better cared for in the care home than in hospital.

In 'cared for' I mean the whole person. Not just the physical. The care home encouraged DM to get out of her room, to sit in the lounge with others, to eat with others. Eating is discretely monitored. Drinking is regularly encouraged.

Being self funding meant that there was a choice in where to go. We were able to choose somewhere that worked both for DM and also for us, her family. The atmosphere is akin to a golf or spa hotel without the golf course or swimming pool.

It does help that DBs and I do not benefit from DM's will. We are cheerfully spending our kids' inheritance.

they are convinced that if MIL goes into a home no-one will ensure that she eats

This is nonsense. They will regularly monitor both her weight and her food intake. She'll probably eat better than she does now.

Yes I agree with some of that - but atleast it may push them to sell the house or get her more suitable care. Or have the council fund it now but reclaim the money later out of the estate. It seems madness to rely on getting it back for the OP.

My mum went into care last year. It was her decision. It is a really good home and she is much happier. There is company, plenty to do and she is really well looked after. It is absolutely the right thing for her. She has enough money for a limited number of years from the sale of her flat, so we are looking into insurance to fund it for life.

Honestly the relief that she is in the right place, that we are doing a lot less running around, makes all of us kids a lot happier and the impact on any possible future inheritance is utterly irrelevant.

Some others new to the home having been isolated before, but they seem to end up much happier, provided they still see plenty of their friends and family. You have to find the right home though.

@NoHaudinMaWheest You are welcome and I hope family members understand their roles and responsibilities. DH and me are your age and my DM had a property to sell. She died before much of the proceeds were used but as Attorney I never asked anyone else for money. I also knew what was in DMs will and it was fair to all that she self funded when living at home became impossible. Just remind everyone of the rules.

It's her husband and his brother. The OP is the DIL it's not her siblings.

@NoHaudinMaWheest It’s 100% clear that an attorney MUST act in the sole interest of the donor. Your MIL. No will beneficiaries are relevant or anything else. He should be guided by health professionals if he has health and welfare POA. If just finance, he has to manage her money for her needs. It is not acceptable to ask you. This is too much money every month and it sounds like a care home is best. I assume you know the costs but an attorney cannot hold onto a house belonging to the donor because they want the money from it. Your MIL’s needs come first.

care homes are used to coaxing people to eat

Yes exactly. This also struck me as an odd objection to a home. My dad ate much better there as proper meals were cooked and served, and residents could eat in their rooms but were very much encouraged to come to the dining room and eat at the table with others at mealtimes other than breakfast. They may be thinking of something more like hospital where food is plonked down and just removed later with no care for if the patient has tried it, can eat it, or whatever. A care home environment would be different. Staff are specifically there to make sure residents eat, get washed and dressed etc.

But if she owns a house, SS are right to say that it should be used to fund her care, even if that's delayed until a later point when the house has been sold. The brother here sounds like he's just hoping to keep the house himself if he stalls long enough, though after MIL has died this will presumably mean buying out his brother's share. I'm afraid it's simply not fair of him though to expect the state to pick up the tab while he gets the asset.

Does anyone know what MIL has put in her will? I would assume she'd want to split her assets between her children but you never know. I would keep an eye on what the brother has planned for the house if he's really keen on it. If your DH made it clear he would expect to be bought out of his share when the time comes, then it might make his brother realise that it will take a lot to keep the house for himself, so he might reconcile himself to selling sooner rather than later. That would free up money for your MIL'S care.

I think you need to tease this out into separate strands and consider each one.
MIL physical and mental health- care homes are used to coaxing people to eat, at the moment she is obviously vegetating which will be having a negative impact on mental and physical health. Is staying at home what she still wants?
Your own family health and well being, paying money out is obviously causing you concern and you have needs as a family which means that life could be a bit easier with £100+ pounds a week.
MIL home, for your BIL this is something he both has an emotional attachment too and regards as an asset, but it is not his to decide about.
Future, the costs are likely to rise so committing to paying now is an open ended commitment. And you are no longer earning to replace this money as it is used up. You could have a scenario where you subsidise care at home then she goes into a care home and that takes up all the value of her house.
I can appreciate that your BIL is not easy to say no to but he is not in the same position as you so may not understand the impact on your family.
You need to get clear your personal boundaries on this, then have a talk with your husband to reach, hopefully, a united decision.

Not the case with my dad. They told me I could claim attendance allowance but while he was at home with carers coming in, they funded that as he owned his home but didn't have other savings above the limit. It was pretty full on and in the end I never did claim as things progressed and he moved to a care home, with the agreement that those costs would be reclaimed when his house was sold later.

I'd agree with other posters that for all people say 'I'd never put mum or dad in a home' there comes a point where there's no other option, and like the posters who have shared here such as @Calmhappyandhealthy and @DwarfPalmetto my dad's experience was good. The carers were kind and attentive, he got company and good regular meals, and most of all, I didn't have the constant worry of whether he was OK, if he was eating (I lived 2 hours away so couldn't just pop in) or whether, when I rang and he didn't answer, that was because he was ill, or had fallen and was lying somewhere unable to move. I can see why a care home seems like the absolute last resort to some people, but it ensured safety and a level of care for my dad that wasn't by then achievable at home.

Can you get SS to reassess then? Maybe they’d fund a care home if her needs are now higher. It doesn’t sounds like her house is suitable at all

Op

I have to wonder if all this is in your mils best interest. I appreciate she may have capacity.

care homes do have good and bad points, but are also not the only option! Extra care sheltered means carers on site but her own flat. Retirement flat/home. Lots of options. You can also speak to Age U.K. possible get her independent advice/assessment.

some require her house to be sold to pay, but that is part of what happens. Some require SS input unless fully funded.

if independent people (ie SS) are suggesting care home, then why is no one listening? If family want to pay, then they can. I hear you don’t want to, but you can’t stop DP paying.

does mil need 24/7 care? Could this be explored? An assessment 2 yrs ago needs reviewing.

you can or have been clearly able to pay the shortfall, but I agree you should have complete transparency about costs, income, expenditure, bills etc.

relying on the house sale is foolish, nothing is guaranteed and no sight of will is a concern.

sadly it’s so often family who are identified as stealing/ mismanaging/ abusing older people (I believe more than 75% of older abuse is from family and financial abuse is the biggest affecting older people) I’m not saying that’s happening but secrecy and lack of transparency are a concern.

i think it’s fine to raise concerns with dh about the cost. The field income would have lasted 9/10 yrs, was sold 15yrs ago so has already run out? £600pm is a lot to pay out! In my family, you pay what you can afford not just an equal amount! Can you agree a figure that is manageable for you and dh and find a way for her needs to be met that way? Possible selling and moving is an option?
does bil have POA over finances and health? Housing?

get sight of info
agree amount that is maneagble to pay with dh
discuss with bil and sil and dh together.
speak to Age UK

Does she need live in care then?

Oh, I thought of a third point.

Regardless of how well you get on with her, this woman birthed and raised him.

A man who has the means to contribute to his mums care, and doesn't, is not someone I would want to know, let alone marry.

@NoHaudinMaWheest If BIL is so attached to MIL’s/the family home, when she sadly dies will he sell it or buy out DH’s 50% at market rate? Do you know how MIL’s will apportions her estate?

The £60k from the sale of the field should have been invested for MIL, with BIL’s share, £120k would have been invested and would be there to pay the additional costs for 5 years +. My mum gifted me some money, I refused it for ages but as the rest of the family had taken their money I finally agreed. It is ring-fenced in case my Mum needs it. Your DH is right to use this money to fund his Mum’s care.

However, once the £60k is spent then it stops. Your first responsibility is for you and your DH’s future.

I agree with pp that full financial disclosure is appropriate. Having seen how people can be when it comes to money I would be doing due diligence by checking income and expenditure including checking Land Registry for the sold price for the field. Sadly I have seen people be too trusting.

Ok, two things.

First: She's 90, depressed, socially isolated and housebound with minimal cognitive stimulation or mobility. None of these traits are conducive to living another 5-10 years unless maybe her parents each lived to 110.

Second: She gave you each £60K and the local authority are contributing towards her care?

That would make her a homeowner who deprived herself of assets to fund you at the taxpayer's expense.

If £150 a week is all you're paying, you might want to count yourself lucky that they aren't pursuing you for all of it.