MIL care costs

Honestly, I’d never put my mum in a care home. They are horrible places, especiallly as most people in the ones that accept local authority funding will have dementia and a really high level of need. A nice care home would be £0000’s per week but even those have their issues. I think people on mumsnet romanticise care homes as the better option for people because of loneliness, but they are not some lovely social club. Although to be fair it sounds like your MIL would be able to fund a nice home.

There isn’t a definite relationship between cost and quality. Some expensive homes have facilities designed to appeal to relatives that the resident won’t actually use. What makes the difference is a good manager and happy settled staff. That can be found in care homes at any fee level

It sounds like she has such a miserable existence. No wonder she's depressed. She hasn't been able to bath or shower for FIVE YEARS because of not being able to manage the stairs? And she's existing in one room with a commode and a live-in carer?

She would be so much better off in a home! They have been an overwhelmingly positive experience for us - one of my relatives chose to go into one and really blossomed. Regular, varied proper meals (how good is the carer at cooking - IME they're variable, or is she living on freezer meals) cooked by someone whose job it is to cook appetising meals for elderly people. Company of she wants it - the care homes we used encouraged residents to sit together and encouraged shared interests. Activities, visitors from outside. One of them runs a toddler group in the home! She would see so many more people and have so much more to take an interest in! And she'd be able to shower regularly. It doesn't sound like the POA is acting in her best interests by keeping her at home isolated and miserable.

What happens if your or your DH's health suddenly deteriorates and you absolutely must stop paying the monthly amount because you need it for your needs? Or your children's needs?

@NoHaudinMaWheest if your BIL is anything like my DB you may need to push quite hard to get full financial information.

When we started to look at care homes for DM, DB was very shy of giving me proper information. I had to tease it out of him.

DB didn't want DM to go into a care home (he wanted her to stay in hospital) so used the lack of financial disclosure to try to achieve this.

My DM got £0 from SS because she had savings. They only offered 4 visits a day when they thought she had no savings and they were going to have to pay for a care home. They then lied to me about her discharge assessment at the hospital which was 100% that going home was not possible. They said that was not true! So at 99 DM never had any assessment from SS in her home because they will not spend the money on an “unacceptable” outcome - financially to them. That is, needs a card home at their cost. DM had been in hospital 3 times prior to the final time. Nothing from SS ever. Basically you know whether she needs a care home but many old people always want to stay in their home and relatives pay for this - in time or money. They might have neither.

@NoHaudinMaWheest I think you have to analyse all income and expenditure. Your list seems comprehensive but have you any idea what house maintenance might be? Or improvements if living there is difficult? If she has a decent enough house, why didn’t she downsize earlier? This seems very late in the day.

It’s foolish to take out a loan when she would have equity from selling if she needs a care home. I would insist she lives within her means and also make sure you do not pay in the future. Insist your family comes first. I’d also be against the BIL paying more too and paying himself back from inheritance. At what interest rate? Yet another complex arrangement which could be obscure. You will lose out there too.

I would look at care homes near one of her dc or both. She will be self funding so you have choice. Care homes here ranged from £4600 to £6000 a month, a year ago.

A good list.

I’ve been prompted by another post that Age UK have a lot of useful information on their website https://www.ageuk.org.uk

@NoHaudinMaWheest I think that's exactly it - it needs a thorough looking at rather than looking at it through 'greed goggles' of 'getting their money back'

It's extremely presumptuous of your H too to presume you are happy to have less income for maybe longer term potential gain- what if you split?? I hate to say it but you would get jack shit as it stands as they don't own the house having been handing over thousands

That looks a good starting list. As part of the last one I'd want a new social services care assessment.

Yes, sorry I was just talking about equity release in general as people assume it's a bad choice but actually it can work out cheaper than moving. I think the OP mil is too old for equity release.

@TizerorFizz to be honest if it's using 80, 000 of her own money from the house asset ( allowing for interest) - it makes more sense than using OPs money when clearly they don't have that kind of spare change down the back of a sofa- I agree that it makes more sense to sell up and residential care but if that isn't happening then someone has to pay for at home- and unless BIL can fund it in full and takes bigger cut of inheritance and balance it out then I would insist on equity release- she's 90 and has a lot of equity - so it's not like folks who stupidly do this at 63 with very modest amounts of equity and then wonder why it eats up all their equity

@Arran2024 but the person is selling to move into a care home. No stamp duty, no new carpets, furniture etc.

I was told it would cost me £60k to move - estate agent fees, removals, stamp duty etc. Then buying new furniture, curtains etc if yours doesn't fit. If you have a house worth quite a bit, it can be much more sensible to borrow a bit on equity release than to move.

If you borrow £20,000 - in 12 years you owe £40,000. Getting money out from downsizing can make far more sense. At least you can get a return on it. Live in carers are expensive. It won’t be much cheaper than a care home. DM paid £30 an hour. Not live in but if you needed 40 hours a week that’s £1200 a week. So not far off a care home. Equity release is the last resort and only ok if you don’t have dc. If you do, talk to them and familiarize yourself with the problems and solutions to your care without equity release.

Can BIL put a charge against the house to get your money back if MIL needs to go into a care home and house needs to be sold.

Not necessarily if you just use a chunk of equity for a few years. We have looked into it. The costs of selling up and moving are higher than the costs of taking a bit of equity.

@NoHaudinMaWheest It might be solely from her resources but the debt is not written off. What happens when the loan needs to be repaid on death? There could be very little left for beneficiaries. The sum payable doubles every 12 years. It’s always better to sell and invest. Or downsize. Read MSEs guide. What beneficiary wants a multiplying debt?

A suggestion. Your DH puts something in writing to his brother saying that you've been reviewing your family finances and concluded that from the end of March you will no longer be able to pay the previously agreed contribution to MIL's care. This is for all the reasons given: MIL's own wellbeing, the need to plan for further decline, and the wish to prioritise your own children and their increasing needs. You're open to other ways of supporting MIL and will discuss those but the current arrangement will stop at that date. This gives almost 3 months' notice and allows you to take charge of your own role in this, while allowing time to research the other options. Draw a line.

@NoHaudinMaWheest Equity release could well leave you seriously out of pocket! It’s a mortgage loan with very high interest rates. You will be liable for repaying it and this could take all her equity in her property. It’s much better to sell and self fund. It’s hard when that might use up funds too but there’s no debt. Unlike equity release!

I would look into buying a care annuity policy.

For around £130k plus her pensions all of my mother's care costs are covered. £50k+ a year.

The remainder of her house money has earned around £70k in interest since we took out the annuity.

Had we not done this her current care spend would be £250k+

As an aside mum went into a care home via social services a very undernourished size 0, depressed and lonely she's now size 14/16 and so settled.

With dementia she believes she's either in a very expensive hotel or a monastery (it's the feeling of calm about the place apparently)

Great point. Having access to a dr or nurse is great! We had the same
for my Nan when she was in respite care. She had a UTI and there was no need to try to get a gp appt!