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Elderly parents
Original poster

Help please not sure what to do with my parents,

116 replies

mummy3456 · 04/01/2025 04:47

Hi, My parents lived very successfully on their own until this year ( 88yo and 89yo). Since then they have been in and out of hospital 8 times between them ( since April 2024)
My sibling and I sorted them a lovely care home that we could each visit within 10 minutes drive. After 2 months when my sibing was there they said they hated it and were going to leave. Signed themselves out, sibling bought some groceries and left them in their own home, Texted me to say what was done!
2 weeks later ( and after many visits) I get a call from the neighbour that he'd had to call an ambulance for my mum. Dad couldn't work out how to use the phone but made it down the stairs and across to the neighbours ( he can barely walk - would have taken at least half an hour).

Months before this it was Dad who was sick and the hospital would not discharge to anything but a nursing home.
Mums hospital said the same.
My sibling took them home for the 1 week until the room that they had at the previous nursing home was ready. Got told 3 weeks was as long as they would hold the room.
Well she let it go, so that's gone.
They are living with her but the 24/7 care is not being met as she works 3 days a week. I take them to my place 2 a week for lunch but mum is suddenly terrified of our dogs, and if we put them out they bark.
Dad has already slipped over on our tiles ( not a house made for the elderly). The ambulance crew know the way here.

So ( sorry for ridiculously long post), my sis and I are joint POA and ENduring guardianship. So if I invoke it it doesn't matter as she has to as well. I have had 3 doctors tell me they need 24/7 care ( when they were in hospital at various times but I never got anyone to sign the forms so I am tragically waiting for one of them to have another trip to hospital) . My 12 yo is getting nervy around them and just kind and polite with the repetition, but it's a lot to ask.
They are both getting a bit aggressive,
Mum won't get changed. Dad won't shower.
It's a fecking disaster.
Sister, who caused all this in reality , has now said she needs a break. Gave me 10 days notice that she will be away for 12 days. I can understand that, but she made her bed and suddenly I have to lie in it, I can't drive at the moment due to a foot problem, added problem, my DH starts a new job in 2 days, My mum now weirdly hates my dogs and its school summer holidays here and I won't be able to leave the house so poor DC is stuck in the house. Anyone got any brilliant ideas?

Sorry for long post! Ridiculous.

OP posts:
Original poster
mummy3456 · 07/01/2025 05:30

whiteroseredrose · 04/01/2025 06:49

This is going to sound awful but you need to have a word with your sister. Your parents need to be safe in a care home and if she won't join you in insisting that they go back to the home then you need to let her fail.

We had issues with PIL who ended up living with us for a few months. If I had done my usual thing and run around after them, making it easy for DH to work etc they would probably still be here. Instead I made DH deal with the consequences of his decisions. He had to deal with wee on the sofa and poo on the kitchen floor etc so we found a lovely care home for them.

Talk to your sister. If she chooses to have them live with her, it is her decision but you won't bail her out when it gets too hard. They need to be somewhere where they will be safe and have a whole team of people looking after them.

I know what you mean we have just used a steam cleaner to clean a brand new mattress. I mean , they're my parents and I love them but they need to be in a nursing home. Sister has suddenhly realised that mum and dad's house will have to be sold , so I don't know if that's why she's keen to keep them home. That could be wrong, but she's a secret squirrel and only answers 1 out of 10 of my questions. 6 months ago she was telling mum "don't worry about the house you've got years to worry about that". I was quietly think are you mad?

OP posts:
Original poster
mummy3456 · 07/01/2025 05:22

I have rung my aged care, and suddenly I'm only able to speak on my mums behalf. Though for months I've been speaking to them about dad.
Anyway, possible good news , sister has suggested a meeting at a cafe with mum and dad and her and me. I'll leave my 12yo at home alone ( we have big dogs) and he's probably safer there. My parents are going to go ballistic. After so long I have finally got my sister vaguely onside but mum and dad are going to lose it.
I know Dad will storm out , and mum does whatever he does . My money is them going to the lawyer( who is a vague family friend of mums ) and revoking both the POA's and enduring guardianships. . We are meeting next week. Sister is too busy this week. I just want to crawl under a doona.
If my sister says fine we won't activate it and I say yes we should, mum will forget within 5 minutes but Dad will go batshit.. About a month ago when I suggested something he glared at me for a good 5 minutes. I had to leave the room. He's better now, but mum is getting cross. Feck me.
Thanks for all responses.

OP posts:
Weenurse · 06/01/2025 21:32

Ring my aged care and ask for urgent advice.

Original poster
mummy3456 · 06/01/2025 03:44

BananaSpanner · 05/01/2025 09:47

Yes that’s clear. Your sister has been obstructive for some reason. One option is you could arrange their care from the day your sister goes on holiday. Pick them up from your sisters house (it’s important that you do the collecting, she doesn’t drop them off to you) and take them directly to the care home. It’s sneaky but you’d be acting in their best interests.

Alterntively, you could arrange a live in carer for your sisters house and tell your sister it is that option, or they go into care but they are not coming to you.

Show quote history

Thanks for all the help.
We've lost the place in the nursing home so that's gone.
And we've used the respite. . Old aged care in Australia is stuffed. The thing that is worrying me the most is I know my mum and she's getting snappy , previously the genuinely nicest person in the world, so many friends, still friends with people she met when she was 5yo)..
Now she's constantly cold , I mean it is often high 20's here but we have the aircon set to 24 and I don't think that's cold. Snapping at dad for telling her to put on her nightie but insisting on sleeping in the clothes she's worn all day. The repetitive chat I am used to but it's hard. When they are here for lunch my poor 12yo ( a boy actually - just because of a mix up with a pp) answers her questions over and over. But that's lunch. A few nights when dad was in hospital , she was with us and he got up to get a drink and he found her wandering around and walked her back to her room. I said he should have woken me up. I've told him he has to now.
They have to sell the house and pay for a nursing home. I've been saying for 3 years they should sell that dangerous house ( 17 steps outside to the front door) but they will only take suggestions from my sister, so that was ignored. They would have been able to buy a smaller place and have money in the bank for a carer a few days a week and my sister and I do the other days.
Sorry for ramble. I'm lost.

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 05/01/2025 15:27

Honestly, let them hate you. I’m afraid it will only be downhill from here. The aggression, repetitions and lack of hygiene are clear signs that they are deteriorating and, sorry to be negative but it’s probably only a matter of time before they no longer recognise you.

Your sister made her choice, she must live with it. Prioritise your child and husband.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/01/2025 15:21

And the only terrible person in this scenario is your sister - not you.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/01/2025 15:20

You'll need to translate this for the Australian system, but your sister is clearly acting against the best interests of your parents. If this were the UK I'd say raise a safeguarding alert with the local authority, get them into a home (ideally while she's away) with a deprivation of liberty order so neither they nor your sister can remove them again, and look at getting her removed from the PoA.

FiniteSagacity · 05/01/2025 14:50

@mummy3456 it sounds like finances might be a factor in your sister’s choices but she is actively going against medical advice and has already found she needs a break.

Does the value for money of a care home need a re-think?

A year ago the cost made my eyes water but our 2024 was a shitshow too - and me and my siblings were all working together but DF still had crisis after crisis. He has no insight into his needs.

We all now see the expensive nursing home is worth every penny for the team of people who meet DFs needs those pennies buy. We had to clear and sell his house to fund it but needs must. We could not meet his needs.

I really feel for you as you seem to have realised a care home is needed. I’m sorry your sister is burying her head in the sand and expecting you to make such extreme sacrifices while she goes on a holiday. You are not a terrible person.

SockFluffInTheBath · 05/01/2025 13:24

I'll write it before someone else does - I'm a terrible person.

No, you’re categorically not.

Neither are you a carer. If you take them when your sister is away she will probably never take them back. It’s shitty to say no but it gets easier, and in the long run you’ll be glad you did. Look after yourself and your DS.

TammyJones · 05/01/2025 12:55

Twiglets1 · 05/01/2025 09:02

You’re not a terrible person!

Your sister though has shown a total lack of understanding re how vulnerable they are and failed to acknowledge that they were in the best place even if they didn’t like it. It’s awful of her to act without consulting you and then expect you to deal with the consequences. She needs to take responsibility for her actions and find them another care home before she can think about holidays.

Agree
They should have never left the care home
What was your sister thinking?

BananaSpanner · 05/01/2025 09:47

mummy3456 · 05/01/2025 09:38

Yes, both of them have had capacity tests, and were given 63 days nursing home care paid for by the govt ,. That gives you time to sort finances for the longer term. 3 doctors at 2 different hospitals with each parent said they needed 24/7 care. One said they would go to the guadianship tribunal if my sister tried to send them back to their home, Dad was discharded to a nursing home and so was mum.
This was the place they were at for about 6 weeks, then they complained, then sister drives them home and 2 weeks later I get the call from the neighbour that he's had to call the ambos as mum was unwell and dad can't w9rk the phone,. After mum was in hospital for a few weeks they said she had to go somewhere with a doctor on site and 24/7 nursing or they would go to the guardianship tribunal as well. I wasn't there for that conversation. Then sister tells them it's only a week until they can go back into previous place, so they discharge her to my sisters place They held the room ( its a double) for 3 weeks and sister says they refuse to go so they can live at her place for the "medium" term.
And then I get a text saying she is going away from the 18/1 -27/1 for a break
Is that clear now? Gosh I hope she's not on MN! meaning I am looking after them, which I honestly wouldn;t mind, but unlike her I won't leave them lone. And I am not oeaving with my 12yo, DH would have taken leave but literlly starts a new job on 8/1.
The cost of respite is enormous . I'm just going to tough it out which would be fine but it means mt 12yo cant leave the house for the last 2 weeks of the holidays , and I will be on edge the entire time as mum loved our dogs until about 2 weeks ago.
We brought her over to our place as we have the perfect view of the little local fireworks. I sked her in the morning and she didn't know what I was talking about.
She's always tired , and always cold.
None of this seems good to me .
orry if Ive repeated myself. 2024 was shit.
love to all

Edited

Yes that’s clear. Your sister has been obstructive for some reason. One option is you could arrange their care from the day your sister goes on holiday. Pick them up from your sisters house (it’s important that you do the collecting, she doesn’t drop them off to you) and take them directly to the care home. It’s sneaky but you’d be acting in their best interests.

Alterntively, you could arrange a live in carer for your sisters house and tell your sister it is that option, or they go into care but they are not coming to you.

Original poster
mummy3456 · 05/01/2025 09:38

Yes, both of them have had capacity tests, and were given 63 days nursing home care paid for by the govt ,. That gives you time to sort finances for the longer term. 3 doctors at 2 different hospitals with each parent said they needed 24/7 care. One said they would go to the guadianship tribunal if my sister tried to send them back to their home, Dad was discharded to a nursing home and so was mum.
This was the place they were at for about 6 weeks, then they complained, then sister drives them home and 2 weeks later I get the call from the neighbour that he's had to call the ambos as mum was unwell and dad can't w9rk the phone,. After mum was in hospital for a few weeks they said she had to go somewhere with a doctor on site and 24/7 nursing or they would go to the guardianship tribunal as well. I wasn't there for that conversation. Then sister tells them it's only a week until they can go back into previous place, so they discharge her to my sisters place They held the room ( its a double) for 3 weeks and sister says they refuse to go so they can live at her place for the "medium" term.
And then I get a text saying she is going away from the 18/1 -27/1 for a break
Is that clear now? Gosh I hope she's not on MN! meaning I am looking after them, which I honestly wouldn;t mind, but unlike her I won't leave them lone. And I am not oeaving with my 12yo, DH would have taken leave but literlly starts a new job on 8/1.
The cost of respite is enormous . I'm just going to tough it out which would be fine but it means mt 12yo cant leave the house for the last 2 weeks of the holidays , and I will be on edge the entire time as mum loved our dogs until about 2 weeks ago.
We brought her over to our place as we have the perfect view of the little local fireworks. I sked her in the morning and she didn't know what I was talking about.
She's always tired , and always cold.
None of this seems good to me .
orry if Ive repeated myself. 2024 was shit.
love to all

OP posts:
BananaSpanner · 05/01/2025 09:13

Hmm, not sure your sister has done anything wrong but that maybe because there are legal and social care differences between the two countries.

At the point they left the care home, in the uk unless there is a deprivation of liberty order if they are insisting they want to go home then it may have reached the point that the care home said that she had to take them. Have the doctors actually performed a capacity test and documented it?

Twiglets1 · 05/01/2025 09:02

You’re not a terrible person!

Your sister though has shown a total lack of understanding re how vulnerable they are and failed to acknowledge that they were in the best place even if they didn’t like it. It’s awful of her to act without consulting you and then expect you to deal with the consequences. She needs to take responsibility for her actions and find them another care home before she can think about holidays.

TheSandgroper · 05/01/2025 06:19

@mummy3456 you are not a terrible person. Absolutely not. You have been landed with a succession of terrible situations and your sister could generously be described as self-indulgent, which is not helpful.

You aren't terrible at all. Take a deep breath, think about your next steps and decide upon what you can do. Look for support for yourself both via organisations and family and friends if they are handy. Don't hide your sister.

I am sure your parents were working with the best of intentions in giving you both EG and LPOA but messes unfortunately can ensue.

Don't start thinking about everything your sister thinks you should do. Failing that, is there someone else in the family that your sister will take a "wtf?" phone call from?

Wishing you best of luck.

Original poster
mummy3456 · 05/01/2025 06:10

@TheSandgroper this is almost exactly what one of the doctors told me. He said "next time theirs a crisis and their will be" go to the doctor listed in charge of whichever parent it is and say you want it noted that you do not want them discharged until its a nursing home you are happy with, or just refuse to take them home.

OP posts:
Original poster
mummy3456 · 05/01/2025 06:05

Sadly I am well aware of the NSW Guardinship Tribunal ( Ex DH car crash). I really don't want to go there again. I will if I have to. There is no guardian at the moment as although I think we should invoke it my sister refuses to. My son who is a lawyer said yes I'm pretty fecked unless she agrees so no point. Next point is guardianship tribunal ( which one hospital threatened to do but sister said she had a place at nursing home and would only be a week at her place). So that was the end of that. That was 5 weeks ago. She also leaves them alone 3 days a week. I take them to my place one of those days, but as horribe as it is to say I have spent years caring for people ( DH car crash) and I'm all run out. I just want for them to go to a nice place with a comfy bed, good tv, an ensuite and and an endless array of books. I'd like the same!
I have a lot of people and animals reliant on me which is fine but adding in mum and dad was not on my list.
I'll write it before someone else does - I'm a terrible person.
People please get your stuff in order for your old age or you will leave a catastrophe behid that you aren't around to sort.

OP posts:
TheSandgroper · 05/01/2025 05:35

@mummy3456

So, you don't say what state you are in.

  1. Write a time line. Start requesting copies of supporting documentation from doctors, hospital and care home.

  2. Get legal advice. As a matter of urgency, ring Dementia Australia The National Dementia Helpline | Dementia Australia. Ask them about a review of your Guardianship Order. Ask them for the name of a solicitor experienced in these matters.

  3. Depending upon your advice, apply for an urgent review of the Guardianship Order Guardianship Orders | NSW Government (re the urgent review, I don't know if such a thing is possible).

  4. DO NOT talk to your sister about any of this. You need to get yourself educated so you do not get blindsided by her bullheadedness. If your parents end up in hospital, leave them there bedblocking for as long as possible while the whole care home problem is revisited, hopefully with a changed legal situation. If they end up in hospital, try and talk to them without your sister and mention safeguarding, not in their best interests etc. the hospital will have seen it all before and may have good advice for you.

The National Dementia Helpline

Call 1800 100 500 for free and confidential expert information, advice and support, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

https://www.dementia.org.au/get-support/national-dementia-helpline

InkHeart2024 · 05/01/2025 05:12

Stop covering for your sister. Don't look after them while she's at work/on holiday. She made the mess, she has to feel the consequences. I know it's harsh but you're enabling her bad decisions. They need to be in a care home. Can you find them a room again in the next couple of weeks so they move while sister is on holiday? Then make it clear you won't be caring if she takes them home again.

Original poster
mummy3456 · 05/01/2025 05:02

crimsonlake · 04/01/2025 10:26

Tbh if they don't have capacity I am not clear as to how they simply upped and left the car home? You can't suddenly up and walk out of one if your a resident.

They signed some forms ( as no POA) and my sister drove them to their home they own. She bought them some groceries and left them to it. As I said it was their neighbour who called the ambulance about mum and that would have taken dad at least 30 minutes to get there to tell him. Dad can't work any phones. ( The neighbours are very lovely and only a few metres from my parents place but it is not their problem. ) So they lasted 2 weeks on their own and are refusing to move into any nursing home. If I invoke my half od the POA I don't know what happens. I need to find that out. Will check with lawyer.
nd yes I have a 12yo on summer holidays who will not be able to leave the house , whilst they are here,I guess he can just play more minecraft,
Absolutely terrible situation. Try not to leave your kids in the same. I'm going to write a will and only name one as enduring guardian and POA. The others will just go along with it as they know he has nothing but my best interests at heart. Try not to leave your kids in a mess. x

OP posts:
July24MJ · 04/01/2025 13:26

Sorry to hear this - we've recently gone through similar. From an emotional standpoint - try to think that they don't / won't really "hate" you if they don't have capacity. Lack of capacity means they can't make the decisions needed in their best interests, so stands to reason they're a) not going to like someone else making them and b) will never agree with those decisions. It's harsh I know, but if you can get your head around that, it can help.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 04/01/2025 13:03

Does Australia (or NZ, whichever you are in) have the equivalent of a deprivation of liberty order? Because it sounds like that's what's needed. This allows someone to be moved to and kept in a care facility against their will, if they don't have capacity and it's in their best interests.

FiniteSagacity · 04/01/2025 12:39

I know you’re not in the UK @mummy3456 but the link below helped me talk to my siblings - it sounds like your parents lack insight into their needs. It may not just be denial or not liking the home. As pp suggested, your sister needs to accept that respite (that will become permanent) in a home is the only way because they need a team of people helping them:
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/help-dementia-care/coping-denial-lack-of-insight
This week DF was openly plotting his return home because he is ‘better’ and thinks he should be rehabilitated and go home but he is only ‘better’ because he has 24 hour support. DF has a good relationship with his carers and doesn’t hate the nursing home now. They have a deprivation of liberty safe-guarding procedure so he cannot ‘sign himself out’. As a pp said, a live in carer would have been prohibitively expensive (and pointless in a home that was not suitable for DF anyway). I hope your sister can see that what your parents want is no longer the right thing to do.

MrRobinsonsQuango · 04/01/2025 12:02

I8toys · 04/01/2025 10:48

Not read the full thread but she has made her bed by letting them stay with her. While she's away they go into respite whilst either waiting for her to come back or for a care home place. Do not allow them to move in with you. If they need 24 hour care a live in carer would be extortionate at home.

This. DONT LET THEM MOVE INTO YOUR HOUSE! It’s not suitable by the sounds of it. What did your sister think was going to happen when they moved in with her? The options are

  1. they go back to a care home (seems like the best option)
  2. your sister gets a respite carer or they go into respite. Then carers to support her
  3. your parents get carers at home
emmax1980 · 04/01/2025 11:54

Sit down with your sister and say you can have them living with you when she is away. I would say well let them live with her and geta a carer in while she is away.