Page 2 | Elderly person visa's expired. Any experiences?

Katherina198819 · 2025-01-03T19:55:05+00:00

My husband's father is from the US and has severe dementia. He moved in with us 2 years ago as he lost his house due to signing over to his other son, and none of the relatives in the US would take care of him. We applied twice for elderly visas based on human rights, but it's been refused (not surprised. The chances are that getting it is extremely low). Until the applications have been processed, he could stay here legally. Now he is 91, and his dementia is much worse. He doesn't remember anything, bearly speaking or eating and only awake 4 hours a day. He goes to the doctor's private (never used NHS and not planning on), and his pention insurance covers all emergencies if he ends up in the hospital. We take care of him at home. Now the problem is: we could keep applying for the visa so he could stay here legally, but honestly, I don't see the point. It costs over 10 thousand a year (with all the legal fees included), and we know it will be declined. When we asked the lawyer what will happen if he stays here inlegally he said: they propably can't deport him as he is in "end of life" shape- but of course, he is keep pushing to apply for the visa. We talked to an elderly home, in case if he gets worse (his pention will be enough to cover the costs), and they said they would take him even without a visa. When he arrived, he didn't have a retun ticket, so we thought it would be an issue, but no one had contacted us so far. Any experiences? He won't be a burden on NHS. We just want him here as he hasn't got anyone else. It's very sad, but there is no way he would survive a trip home, and he's got nowhere to go. We will probably apply again for a visa (it's already in motion with the immigration lawyer), but I'm just curious about experiences and what will happen if we are contacted before the visa application?

AnneElliott · 04/01/2025 11:04

I used to work for immigration - albeit a number of years ago. It's unlikely we'd deport in this situation, although I agree a visa is unlikely as the case law is so very strict. I have seen similar cases granted though under Article 8. Have you appealed the refusal of the visas? Ideally you need to appeal to the appellate court and then to the tribunal. That's where you are more likely to be successful.

And please make sure you have e a reputable lawyer - so many immigration lawyers are downright criminals and do their clients no favours at all.

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 11:02

YellowPixie · 04/01/2025 10:26

It's a while ago now - but an elderly uncle of my dad's was in the same position. He was born in the UK but left as a teenager to go to America and naturalised there as a US citizen so renouncing his UK passport. He always travelled as an American, paid taxes in the US not the UK. Never married or had children. When he was very elderly he decided he wanted to come "home" and just arrived one day to move in with his equally elderly bachelor brother, lived in the UK for about 6 years before dying.

Nobody ever questioned the fact he hadn't returned to the US at the end of his tourist visa but then again he never even started the process of applying to remtain. He was completely under the radar.

Thank you!
I am very surprised that we have never been contacted. He didn't have a return ticket, which should have been an issue when entering the country (I know it's an issue in the States).
But at the same time, he pays everything for himself and never uses public services. Make sense they won't care about him staying here - he spends money and not taking.

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MumonabikeE5 · 04/01/2025 10:55

I see no reason why you’d keep risking raising their attention to his existence.

I don’t imagine he gets out and about much or is a heavy user of services etc

id quietly desist from visa stuff

and deal with it if it comes up.

although I have no idea what the issues will be with dealing with his death.

best of wishes to you

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 10:51

mitogoshigg · 04/01/2025 10:39

Honestly, if the tables were reversed the USA government would deport British citizens too. He either needs a visa or to return to the USA. Can't you petition the USA courts for the proceeds of his house, you say he gave it away, was he of sound mind, was he coerced? It sounds like his other dc have really been terrible to him but it's not the U.K. taxpayer's job to pay, yes he's managing to pay privately currently but care for dementia patients is at least double what you have mentioned, it's not just basic care so often but 1:1 24/7, even 6 years ago in a similar area income wise (not se) bills hit £1500 a week with a further £400 surcharge for 1:1 for dgm in the cheapest place in the area, not a flashy modern one, thankfully the nhs paid in full.

I would be approaching your mp to see if there's compassionate exemption but also looking at legal remedies to get his money back as giving it away under British law is deprivation of assets, surely there's something similar in the USA, what would happen if he went back?

Why does the uk taxpayer would pay anything? The only thing he does is spend money here and not take it.
We can't fight his house back - his other son made him sign it over and sold it without us knowing. We contacted lawyers about it, and they all said he needed to stay in the US to fight it. First, we couldn't move back there as we have family here. Second, he was so traumatised and depressed after what happened. We didn't want to put him through the horrible process.

He has money saved up, and he has high pension and private insurance. He was happy to be here and had a social life when he came (he doesn't anymore as he's got worse).

There is no way he can go back. He simply wouldn't survive the flight. His private GP also said he won't survive going back.

We already contacted care home where he could go and be able to afford it. We also have a carer who will come every day to look after him from next month when I go back to work. If he needs to go to the hospital, his insurance will cover it.
He just wants to stay here with his son and his family and die in peace.

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OVienna · 04/01/2025 10:39

YellowPixie · 04/01/2025 10:26

It's a while ago now - but an elderly uncle of my dad's was in the same position. He was born in the UK but left as a teenager to go to America and naturalised there as a US citizen so renouncing his UK passport. He always travelled as an American, paid taxes in the US not the UK. Never married or had children. When he was very elderly he decided he wanted to come "home" and just arrived one day to move in with his equally elderly bachelor brother, lived in the UK for about 6 years before dying.

Nobody ever questioned the fact he hadn't returned to the US at the end of his tourist visa but then again he never even started the process of applying to remtain. He was completely under the radar.

Are you sure this person renounced the British passport?

mitogoshigg · 04/01/2025 10:39

Honestly, if the tables were reversed the USA government would deport British citizens too. He either needs a visa or to return to the USA. Can't you petition the USA courts for the proceeds of his house, you say he gave it away, was he of sound mind, was he coerced? It sounds like his other dc have really been terrible to him but it's not the U.K. taxpayer's job to pay, yes he's managing to pay privately currently but care for dementia patients is at least double what you have mentioned, it's not just basic care so often but 1:1 24/7, even 6 years ago in a similar area income wise (not se) bills hit £1500 a week with a further £400 surcharge for 1:1 for dgm in the cheapest place in the area, not a flashy modern one, thankfully the nhs paid in full.

I would be approaching your mp to see if there's compassionate exemption but also looking at legal remedies to get his money back as giving it away under British law is deprivation of assets, surely there's something similar in the USA, what would happen if he went back?

Inspiremeaholiday · 04/01/2025 10:36

Oh OP I’m so sorry. The visa you’re looking at is near impossible to get (I believe one year only 8 were issued though thousands applied for).
In all honestly they won’t deport him.

Also if the visa is denied you should get your nhs surcharge back.

What a terrible situation. I’m so sorry.

Yellowseat · 04/01/2025 10:31

@Katherina198819 there is no easy answer here. Not every situation has a straightforward answer and this is definitely one. I would be taking the ask for forgiveness not permission view. I think you tried the legal approach and it failed so sit tight and see what happens. So long as he isn’t coming into the eyeline of services it is very unlikely that red flags will be raised so just plod through until that no longer works for you by which time hopefully he will have lived out a comfortable happy life.

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 10:28

Just repeat it again because people seem to think he will need NHS. He doesn't!
He is the last generation of America's "golden age" who has very high pension and worldwide insurance cover.
We take him every 3 months to a PRIVATE GP and every 6 months to a memory test (for his memory medication). He payes for his own medicine and health care.
His US insurance covers all hospital states, ambulance calls, and emergencies. Again, he won't cost NHS money. If anything, they will gain money from him (one day, hospital stay cost £2500 pound for the insurance, and £50 for us).
He is not here to take advantage of the system. He can afford to go private.

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YellowPixie · 04/01/2025 10:26

It's a while ago now - but an elderly uncle of my dad's was in the same position. He was born in the UK but left as a teenager to go to America and naturalised there as a US citizen so renouncing his UK passport. He always travelled as an American, paid taxes in the US not the UK. Never married or had children. When he was very elderly he decided he wanted to come "home" and just arrived one day to move in with his equally elderly bachelor brother, lived in the UK for about 6 years before dying.

Nobody ever questioned the fact he hadn't returned to the US at the end of his tourist visa but then again he never even started the process of applying to remtain. He was completely under the radar.

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 10:22

MrsNessaSmithy · 04/01/2025 10:18

We have dealt with people with expired passports/ visas etc. at work.

He will have his needs assessed if necessary and services provided under human rights. They won’t go to the expense of deporting a very unwell person.

Thank you. That is what immigration lawyers told us. I still would like to make his stay legal without constantly applying for elderly visa- it's seems like, unfortunately, that is the only way so far.

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Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 10:19

MyNavyPombear · 04/01/2025 09:40

No it doesn’t. A retired person still has to go through the legal channels to remain here as a permanent resident. Why did he come here if he was already very unwell? That was irresponsibility in his and his family’s part. My relative is retired, and lives off their US state pension. They have to pay a lot of money to stay here, and this is also after working and living here for most of their life paying into the system too. That’s on you for bringing him here in the hopes that he will just be able to stay because he’s elderly and unwell. He would be a significant cost to the NHS. It’s not a nice situation but those are the facts.

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His been kicked out his own house and has no one. We tried to fight it - take the house back, but that meant he had to stay in the US while the process lasted (which can take years). He would have died in the process.
Why is it so hard to believe that you don't want to leave a relative alone to die far away from you?
It's not irresponsible as he has money saved, he doesn't need NHS, and he just wants to exist in his room surrounded by his loved one. I personally don't see the problem. Also, when he came here he was much better- head memory issues but was physically active. In two years, his health declined. Which is expected for a 91 years old with dementia, after going through such an emotional stress.

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MrsNessaSmithy · 04/01/2025 10:18

We have dealt with people with expired passports/ visas etc. at work.

He will have his needs assessed if necessary and services provided under human rights. They won’t go to the expense of deporting a very unwell person.

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 10:15

Falafelolive · 04/01/2025 01:49

What type of visa did he come to the UK on, two years ago?

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He came on a holiday visa (6 months stay). Around 5 months, we applied for the elderly visa - it took one year to process. After that, we applied again, and it's been refused after 6 months. According to the immigration law, he is here legally as long as he has visa applications in process - even if it gets refused.

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Original poster

Katherina198819 · 04/01/2025 10:13

Autumnalmists · 03/01/2025 22:46

So he gave his asset away which could have funded care?
if he falls in the home etc he will need an nhs ambulance and nhs A&E etc…. So will be needing nhs. So a visa would be helpful.

He doesn't. His pention is high and he is going private. His medication, vaccination, everything is paid for!
His pention insurance from the State covers all hospital stays and emergencies. Believe me, we researched the policy and double-checked everything. He does not need insurance. He also has money saved up.

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MyNavyPombear · 04/01/2025 09:40

Katherina198819 · 03/01/2025 22:19

His 91 years old with a dementia. He is been here for two years. Don't understand what kind of plan or citizenship he could have. What you saying is relevant for people with jobs.

My husband used to pay for his own visa and now he is a citizen. For a 91 years old it works differently.

Edited

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No it doesn’t. A retired person still has to go through the legal channels to remain here as a permanent resident. Why did he come here if he was already very unwell? That was irresponsibility in his and his family’s part. My relative is retired, and lives off their US state pension. They have to pay a lot of money to stay here, and this is also after working and living here for most of their life paying into the system too. That’s on you for bringing him here in the hopes that he will just be able to stay because he’s elderly and unwell. He would be a significant cost to the NHS. It’s not a nice situation but those are the facts.

Falafelolive · 04/01/2025 01:49

Katherina198819 · 03/01/2025 22:19

His 91 years old with a dementia. He is been here for two years. Don't understand what kind of plan or citizenship he could have. What you saying is relevant for people with jobs.

My husband used to pay for his own visa and now he is a citizen. For a 91 years old it works differently.

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What type of visa did he come to the UK on, two years ago?

RedRosie · 03/01/2025 22:52

I would contact his/your MP as well, and see if they will help. Poor old chap. He's lucky to have you.

Autumnalmists · 03/01/2025 22:46

So he gave his asset away which could have funded care?
if he falls in the home etc he will need an nhs ambulance and nhs A&E etc…. So will be needing nhs. So a visa would be helpful.

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 03/01/2025 22:25

NerrSnerr · 03/01/2025 22:20

It depends on the area. In my county some of the inner city care homes are about that price for nursing care. The posher ones out in the countryside/ purpose built Barchesters etc are about 1200/2000. Really does depend on the area and the home.

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Yes, it's a village in the northeast. It's 600 without care and 800 with care. It is the closest one to our home. I looked around the town and they seem to be slightly more expensive.

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NerrSnerr · 03/01/2025 22:20

titchy · 03/01/2025 22:04

You won't get full on care for that little I'm afraid. £800 may buy you very basic room and food, but nothing more which it sounds like he needs.

It depends on the area. In my county some of the inner city care homes are about that price for nursing care. The posher ones out in the countryside/ purpose built Barchesters etc are about 1200/2000. Really does depend on the area and the home.

Original poster

Katherina198819 · 03/01/2025 22:19

MyNavyPombear · 03/01/2025 21:43

As far as immigration law goes he would need to have renewed his visa before it ran out. Did he not have any financial means of paying for it? How long has he been in the UK? My relative is going to be paying for another round of visa renewal and then will be going for citizenship. They have to pay for access to medical treatment on the NHS and be financially independent in every other way. A US national has to oboe by these rules. I’m surprised he moved over here without financial security or any plans to stay.

His 91 years old with a dementia. He is been here for two years. Don't understand what kind of plan or citizenship he could have. What you saying is relevant for people with jobs.

My husband used to pay for his own visa and now he is a citizen. For a 91 years old it works differently.

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titchy · 03/01/2025 22:04

You won't get full on care for that little I'm afraid. £800 may buy you very basic room and food, but nothing more which it sounds like he needs.

kistanbul · 03/01/2025 21:44

Research your MP before contacting them. Some have been known to report illegal immigrants who contact them for help.

MyNavyPombear · 03/01/2025 21:43

As far as immigration law goes he would need to have renewed his visa before it ran out. Did he not have any financial means of paying for it? How long has he been in the UK? My relative is going to be paying for another round of visa renewal and then will be going for citizenship. They have to pay for access to medical treatment on the NHS and be financially independent in every other way. A US national has to oboe by these rules. I’m surprised he moved over here without financial security or any plans to stay.