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Elderly parents

Visiting an elderly but nowhere to sleep

169 replies

tangoonfriday · 12/12/2024 09:49

DM and I live very far away from each other. With the cost of living crisis and my work arrangements it has been difficult financially for me, but I got plane tickets within my budget and going there for Christmas. When I told my DM (in her 80s) the dates I am coming over, it was not the joy we spend the time together but the problem she found in me coming over for only 5 days. A bit of a background, our relationship has never been easy and I moved abroad 30 years ago. I know that my DM would like me to drop my life and move back (but not with her, buy a property nearby and be available for her). I can not do this as it is simply impossible. When I visit DM she has 3 bedrooms (one is hers, one is an office and the third one spare). I stay in the spare one where I sleep on a chaise lounge as there is no bed or sofabed in that room. The sleeping arrangement is uncomfortable and I always return home with all sorts of pains. For nearly a decade I have been suggesting a bed or a sofa bed as I really can not stay there sleeping like that. DM always finds a reason why it is a no. She likes the room the way it is. I suggested me staying in a hotel but it offends her. To be completely honest, I used to go there (feeling so guilty) for two weeks (all my holiday) and sleep on this chaise lounge, waking up in pain. There would always be a conflict over family stuff from 30 ago, or some other things/ dramas so I gradually started reducing my visits time. This Christmas is 5 days and it is the shortest. I am being reminded over the phone (yes I call daily) for the last month, each day how 'I am coming for much shorter visit' (emphaisis on 'shorter'). I have a DP and life and we spend Christmas separately to accomodate all the elderly but I feel I am also allowed to have some time off over Chirstmas the way I want. My question is how would you deal with the 'nowhere to sleep' situation?

OP posts:
Mamabearsmile · 15/12/2024 20:16

Discombobble · 15/12/2024 00:01

Why do you feel guilty? Do you think she feels guilty about how she has treated/is treating you? Of course not.

I Sense a degree of overwhelm on your part. In a way you're doing a bit of what you told us your mum does, as in ruminating on things that happened years ago. I've been through similar things with my own. Here's my rule these days, it stems from some affirmations I took on board a while ago.
AFFIRMATION:

"Life is short and fragile, everyone thinks they have for ever to make things right."

I was the injured party when I came across this but it helped me reflect upon the fact that you can only be responsible for yourself.

If the thought of seeing your mum is so terribly triggering for you then don't see her. She seems to throw up a lot of issues for you. You said earlier on that her great age steered you some what, that there may not be many more christmasses remaining. Maybe that could steer you towards a decision about not to or to? If you are actually 100% sure it's your mum coming up with all of this then just choose what you want to do.
I found forgiveness and a warm response for mine no matter what she came up with from the space that I occupied in Grace. As in: Some times mum says triggering things to me but I'm not biting, I'm a fifty something woman with an ageing, very hard of hearing mum, she's physically vulnerable and finds life much harder since dad died, I'm guessing she finds it difficult that I live at a distance but one day she may reflect upon the fact that I am always kind to her, that I myself am getting older and that I need a bit of consideration.

Having said that to my self I can cope. I've done my best, I cannot make her accepting of my good humour. Ruminating upon the past does not help her and it won't help you either. Just be at peace with this and don't take every single thing people say on board. Only your truth will solve this. It doesn't require mitigation. What ever occurs you are a loving and worthwhile person and deserve to be loved uncondionally. I hope you have a great holiday.

SeaToSki · 15/12/2024 18:24

You can never change someone else, you can only change yourself

So ask yourself if you really really believed that your DM will NEVER change, she will always take offense at imagined slights, she will always give you the huffy/silent treatment, she will never make you physically or emotionally welcome in her home. Every interaction you have with her for the rest of your life will be like this…. What would you change about how YOU approach this situation.

You can never change someone else, you can only change yourself and how you approach a situation.

I would have a long hard think about this idea and really be firm with yourself about not dreaming about the relationship you hope for or feel that you should have with your mother.

It sounds like your mother is emotionally broken and at 80 I dont think she is going to therapy / counseling to try and analyse and work on herself … so the reality is that she is what she is.

I hope you can find some peace with this, because you sound like a lovely person and you deserve a DM who can appreciate and love you

ThePoshUns · 15/12/2024 18:00

Whohasnickedthesellotape · 15/12/2024 16:57

You must realise you can't make her happy, BUT you could make yourself happier by booking a hotel. If she asks why tell her you need to be comfortable and the bloody chaise long ISN'T! If she gets the hump then drop of presents and go do something else nearby that interests you or gives you joy!

Totally this. She's lucky that you visit her at all.

Whohasnickedthesellotape · 15/12/2024 16:57

You must realise you can't make her happy, BUT you could make yourself happier by booking a hotel. If she asks why tell her you need to be comfortable and the bloody chaise long ISN'T! If she gets the hump then drop of presents and go do something else nearby that interests you or gives you joy!

Paperbagsaremine · 15/12/2024 16:15

My goodness, she's your Mum etc but she can be a bit of a fun sponge can't she!

squishee · 15/12/2024 13:01

Airbnb. Keep her at armes length.

AnnaMagnani · 15/12/2024 12:44

How often do you call her and could it be less?

I think you also need some strategies for what to do on a call.
For example, open Mumsnet and be reading threads while letting her just grumble on while you answer with 'Hmm, oh no, how interesting' or whatever
You need some phrases when she asks you what you have been up to, one's that give her no information or as little information as possible as she can even use you buying a Christmas tree as fuel.
So if she asked what you have been up to you could answer:
Not much
You know, the usual
It's been very quiet really
Same stuff as normal
Not much to report

rookiemere · 15/12/2024 12:08

I wonder why you feel the need to share so much information with your DM, given that you must know her likely response to anything positive.
My DPs are very elderly and no major emotional issues, but the information I share with them is very limited as if I do go beyond the banal, it turns the conversation into something different that I find awkward and uncomfortable as there's a fair bit of history rewriting or questioning if they were good enough DPs, it's kind of hard to describe. I feel that after 50 odd years of not discussing emotions I'm not prepared to take theirs on now.

However I'm lucky enough to just live an hour away so can visit for a day, which is possible to keep the tone light and breezy. My cousin lives further away and insists on visiting her DM for a full week even though it's a short inexpensive flight and they are well off.

I would book the hotel OP. It will give you some space in the evenings and ensure you don't cripple your back. You might find your DM more amenable to changing the arrangements once she finds you aren't prepared to accept them as they not acceptable for you.

suburburban · 15/12/2024 11:44

tangoonfriday · 14/12/2024 23:49

I was not sure whether to start a new thread. Since you have been so helpful I wanted to ask further question. (I will be updating here).
We spoke today again. I told DM what a beautiful Christmas tree DP and I bought today and that in fact I think this is the most beautiful tree I have ever had. DM displeased and commented that I must have had more beautiful tree at home. Initially I got confused about the 'home' so I asked what she meant and she meant that I 'must have had more beautiful tree when I was a child and lived at home'.
I said 'I don't remember those trees that well and I am sure they were lovely' but I know what my DM was doing - she was diminishing my current tree, my joy, my style etc. As if it was a competition. As is as an adult I can not consider my tree the most beautiful.
It triggered straight away a story that happened to me when I was 16yo and a weekend before Christmas I was invited to my friend for a sleepover. She and her parents lived in this beautiful house and she had a beautiful large bedroom and lots of cool stuff plus I was in true awe of her and her home. We had a bliss and I still remember that weekend decades later. When I got home and told my DM about the weekend and how happy I was, how I enjoyed it and how I liked their house my DM did not speak to me for days and it was Christmas. Eventually she told me she was hurt by my joy of staying at those people's house and she took my enthusiasm as offence and criticism of our home. Our home was very nice and it is not what I meant. I smiply enjoyed myself there.
The Christmas tree story today was the same. There was that offence. There is offence in everything, even in style of my home, things I have at home. I realise how careful I became in sharing things with DM, how I have to pre- judge everything, every topic. I am so caucious all my life. My question is how do I go about it? I feel like everythig is to provoke a conflict.

Was your dad around when you were growing up OP?

Twiglets1 · 15/12/2024 07:12

Your mother sounds like a narcissist and it seems that you will never please her.

That being the case, I would personally give up trying to please her and please yourself instead. For me the best option would be to book a nearby hotel seeing as she is not prepared to provide a bed for you despite having a spare room.

She will be unhappy about the hotel but so what? Just keep repeating that now you are getting older yourself you need a proper bed or will get aches and pains. She won't care about others discomfort only her own but still, stick to that line and she will be forced to accept it.

PermanentTemporary · 15/12/2024 07:05

I'm not a therapist but I do think you desperately need one. I had a good therapist who would help me practise having difficult conversations with the people I found it hard to communicate with.

It seems that you are desperately hoping for a magic phrase that will make things work - that you will have a conversation where your mum shows some actual love and care for you. I think if this somehow magically happened and your mum said 'oh poor you, your shoulder sounds painful, what can I do to help?' you would then be so overwhelmingly grateful for this little twitch of care that you would rush to her chaise longue and insist on sleeping on it even more.

It's a bit close to this emotionally charged visit to start making radical changes to a relationship that has shaped your whole life. All I'd say is, your mum leaving an awkward silence on the phone is something you could survive. As a child, you couldn't- she used that silent disapproval as a weapon, and as a child there was a fundamental threat to your survival so you had to act to stay alive. But now, at some point, if you go on talking to your mum, you are going to have to survive that silence and keep doing what is better for you.

I'm not very impressed that your dh seems to be leaving you to cope with this without support, but I'm also pleased that he refuses to stay with her and participate in the drama. Suppose you asked him to help you practice the conversation where you either let your mum know that you'll be staying in a hotel, or where you tell her you can't go at all? Write a script for yourself if you have to. Because if you want something to change, you are going to have to change it. Im sorry to repeat others, but your mother doesn't care enough about you to change a single thing in this situation. It is objectively ludicrous to make a woman in her ?50s sleep on a bloody chaise longue of all things for 5 days and shut down any alternative option. But actually, you CAN take action and survive her attempts to control you. You can book a hotel and tell her you're doing it. Or, if you can't get a room, you could cancel the visit. And when she goes silent, you could laugh, and say 'oh mum I knew I'd get the silent treatment for this! Don't be silly, I can't possibly do my back in for a month on that thing. What are you planning for Christmas dinner?'

FurryHats · 15/12/2024 06:48

Oh, the demanding you go where they go, visiting their friends and neighbours and relatives, etc, yours being irrelevant. As if you were 8 years old. Sounds familiar to me! It’s because they only see you as an adjunct to their existence, to do their bidding, not worthy of real care or respect. Not allowing you to make up a proper bed with even a mattress on the floor is one example.

At 80, this could go on for years, another decade or more. So I recommend you start getting your boundaries in a row now. It’s difficult but by this time next year you could be in a better place. A peaceful Xmas, fewer phone calls. They cannot force you to visit, phone, or give information you don’t want to share. If you find a good therapist this can help support you and sort it out emotionally too.

I don’t know if you will go or not but I wouldn’t bother again and if I went this Xmas I would stay in a hotel. You can easily make excuses in future years - illness, your age, other plans, travel difficulties.

Self centred parents can huff and puff, sulk, complain, be self pitying and rude. But they cannot make you do anything you don’t want to - if you consistently stand your ground. Eventually they get to accept the new normal, whatever that may be.

ACatNamedRobin · 15/12/2024 00:42

OP

There's nothing good for you in all this.
Stop calling her, or at least reduce it to once a week first.
And just stay at home this Christmas - lie and tell her you're sick or whatever.
She's controlling and psychologically abusing you, and she's done so for decades.

Discombobble · 15/12/2024 00:01

tangoonfriday · 12/12/2024 23:48

@Pallisers I think I have to go this year but I have been already occupied by it for over a month playing all sorts of dialogues and potential dramas in my head. I did mention to DM couple of months ago that next year DP and I want to go away for Christmas and she did that awkward silence over the phone followed by guilt triping me into 'oh well' and sulking. Each year I think 'oh god that might be the last Christmas' and I burst into tears. I am the only child and I have not got my own children so I often think about my own future loneliness. I always felt a bit lonely and used tbh. I say to DM how when I am old I will not have a child to spend Christmas with nor to phone me. Really and trully I wonder how others cope with guilt. I find many of you so strong and standing your ground. PP mentioned me being a status and I think you nailed it. I wish instead of imposing things on me she respected me and asked 'I got an invite over Christmas to visit so and so, perhaps you would like to join me' - that would have a whole different notion. Instead it is 'I expect you to go with me.'

Why do you feel guilty? Do you think she feels guilty about how she has treated/is treating you? Of course not.

tangoonfriday · 14/12/2024 23:49

I was not sure whether to start a new thread. Since you have been so helpful I wanted to ask further question. (I will be updating here).
We spoke today again. I told DM what a beautiful Christmas tree DP and I bought today and that in fact I think this is the most beautiful tree I have ever had. DM displeased and commented that I must have had more beautiful tree at home. Initially I got confused about the 'home' so I asked what she meant and she meant that I 'must have had more beautiful tree when I was a child and lived at home'.
I said 'I don't remember those trees that well and I am sure they were lovely' but I know what my DM was doing - she was diminishing my current tree, my joy, my style etc. As if it was a competition. As is as an adult I can not consider my tree the most beautiful.
It triggered straight away a story that happened to me when I was 16yo and a weekend before Christmas I was invited to my friend for a sleepover. She and her parents lived in this beautiful house and she had a beautiful large bedroom and lots of cool stuff plus I was in true awe of her and her home. We had a bliss and I still remember that weekend decades later. When I got home and told my DM about the weekend and how happy I was, how I enjoyed it and how I liked their house my DM did not speak to me for days and it was Christmas. Eventually she told me she was hurt by my joy of staying at those people's house and she took my enthusiasm as offence and criticism of our home. Our home was very nice and it is not what I meant. I smiply enjoyed myself there.
The Christmas tree story today was the same. There was that offence. There is offence in everything, even in style of my home, things I have at home. I realise how careful I became in sharing things with DM, how I have to pre- judge everything, every topic. I am so caucious all my life. My question is how do I go about it? I feel like everythig is to provoke a conflict.

OP posts:
rookiemere · 14/12/2024 08:45

Could you get something like this delivered https://www.amazon.co.uk/DYNMC-you-Folding-Mattress-Comfortable/dp/B085S36YWS/ref=ascdffB085S36YWS?mcid=f39b8aa298573e5bbae61f9c73c848ca&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697278107951&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16219157893134278764&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046891&hvtargid=pla-923316437033&psc=1&gadsource=1 ?

It can fit in a cupboard between visits. If she throws it out or makes a big fuss, then you have your justification to stay in a hotel on any future visits.

TammyJones · 14/12/2024 03:38

And daily calls ?
Knock them on the head.
Just cos a woman birthed you doesn't give them the life long right ti abuse you ..... haven't you got a busy life to be living
Do you really have time / headspace for your selfish , controlling, narcissistic, nasty , ungrateful, uncaring mum?
If you do...
Go volunteer somewhere, you'd get more appreciation and you'd actually be helping someone who genuinely needed it.

TammyJones · 14/12/2024 03:17

AnnaMagnani · 12/12/2024 21:38

I think I love her more than she loves me.

TBH, and I'm sorry to say this, I don't think she loves you at all.

She doesn't seem aware of you as a separate adult human being in the slightest, just somebody who she has around in order to give her status.

From the info you have given us:
You are less important to her as a physical being than the decor in a spare bedroom she doesn't enter
You are important to her as a demonstration of her status - seeing the cousin so she can demonstrate that she has a faithful daughter who does as she tells her

Even though she is elderly, you still have time to break free.

THIS
reas up on FOG
say no - you deserve peace.

Paperbagsaremine · 13/12/2024 23:36

Few things come to mind.

Firstly, what interactions do go ok, and bring some (even mild) pleasure to you both?

Secondly, the roots of how she is are probably in her childhood. Find out more about that (one way or another) and you may find it slightly easier to deal with her.

Thirdly, you don't have to reply or react to her. Silence and/or changing the subject can be VERY effective.
IME usually the difficult person doesn't have the brass neck to confront you about it, ...
but if they do, "Well, I didn't really know WHAT to say!" is a good all purpose response. By the time they've gone, "what do you mean you didn't know what to say?" (and they probably won't, there'll just be light sulking) you'll have had enough thinking time to come up with something, e.g.
"I don't understand why you say you want to see me but you act the opposite, surely if you want someone to come stay you at least offer them a bed and somewhere to hang clothes..."

pizzaHeart · 13/12/2024 22:11

I think you need to work out your boundaries OP for yourself.
Bed. You can’t sleep on this “bed” and your mum refuses to buy another bed. So your options are : to stay in a hotel or to buy a bed and get it delivered to your mum. IMO you need to decide which option is better for you, then put it in action and notify your mum at the very last minute about your choice.
And this should be your approach with all issues. Why on earth you told your mum that you’re bringing a pillow?? Once you arrived and unpacked if she asked you what’s this for you could answered : it’s my new pillow I use it for my shoulder, recommended by physiotherapist. End of conversation. And then ignore any sighs or eye rolls or whatever. At the moment it looks like you are asking permission for bringing stuff which is weird.
By the way Im not sure actually about buying a new bed, in this case you won’t have an excuse to do short visits. So I would stay in a hotel. I would book and then notify mum of course in advance as you would do with any other host. But I won’t start talking about next Christmas now - it’s madness.
Meals. If mum wants to eat at certain times - great, let her be. Eat when you want to eat but offer her help with cooking her meal and washing after.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to leave her alone on Xmas day, sorry. I don’t think it’s polite. And I don’t think her desire to go to relatives with you is unreasonable.
And buy a reading lamp, don’t ask , just buy it.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 13/12/2024 21:31

OP you can do this. Tell her you've hurt your back and can't sleep on that chaise so please can she source a bed for you or you can't come. If she wants to see you she'll do it. If not that's sad but you will know the rejection came from her not you.

tangoonfriday · 13/12/2024 19:26

@Mamabearsmile what a lovely, gentle message thank you x Merry Christmas to All

OP posts:
TheBestLackAllConviction · 13/12/2024 16:08

I'd deal with it by telling her I won't be visiting again.

Mamabearsmile · 13/12/2024 15:54

tangoonfriday · 13/12/2024 15:14

@FavouriteTshirt thank you and to PP all good ideas. I do not take DP there as my DP has not got patience to deal with that type of drama (he is older than me and also wants to relax). My DM got invited over 5 years ago to us but eventhough she was visiting she made a fuss and I felt very uncomfortable in my own home. She was not as bad as she is when I go there but it was uncomfortable and made sure we knew. I observed that elderly parents behave better when they are in less familar environment otheriwse when she is at her own place and I visit, there is no space for any compromise and a lot of drama.
Updating on yesterday - today my long term friend has invited me to a dinner when I am over there and another friend will join. So this refers back to my DM yesterday imposing the visit she expects me to pay with her, to her cousin. No consideration that I also could be invited by people and that I could have plans. The friend suggested 25th or 26th but I know DM will kick up a fuss that 25th I must sit with her ('because on that day we are alwasy at home!) and 26th we are going to her cousin. She has no consideration that other people also have their schedules and also travel from abroad and Christmas is about compromises and joy of connecting with people we love not about my way or the highway. Just reading your replies and my posts I realise how bad it is and how I was brushing it all off. I am actually bloody angry with myself. I am not calling tomorrow. and next week I already planned days I will not call so gradually will be reducing the daily calls. She started pulling me on 'not having much to say lately' and she does it with a bit of an attitude in her voice. She just wants to know everything and when she feels she doesnt get it she is all uptight about it. All my life she thought she knew everything about my life whilst but I would only share what i wanted to share. This year in particular I observe she feels a bit FOMO and takes it out on me.

It's only fifty percent of the interactions are your mum and rest are you. You have ageing anxiety and so does your mum. Only she's older and nearer the gate. She should be nice though. Maybe you could flick a few boundaries out there before you land, I won't be out on the 25th but I will definitely be out on the 26th.

I wouldnt leave an elderly lady alone on christmas night. Try to find a space where you can express how you really feel but gently. " I have come a long way to see you let's not have words. I'm not getting any younger and I need a decent bed to stay in. I don't want to disagree with you but you're not exactly meeting me half way etc... I hope that inspite of your differences you manage to enjoy quality time together and you find a decent bed when you get there.

I dont think its that bad either. I think people just fall into patterns, are influenced by others and half the time pick up the wrong end of the stick.
Don't stress too much and I hope your Christmas is wonderful.

Merry Christmas OP.

Mum5net · 13/12/2024 15:50

Don't tell your DM anything about your friends' various invitations or she will sabotage....

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