MIL constantly falling - we are at our wits end

@AInightingale Very good point about HRT

I think the point is to start thinking about how you are going to cope with your own ageing, rather than assuming that it won't happen.
So consider how well your current property would suit your needs, for example. Think about who will help you, when that time comes, whether that's at 70 or 110.
That's what people who've had to deal with their own ageing parents tend to do.
My parents moved from a large house to a spacious bungalow, from where they continued their active lifestyle. Over the years they made adaptations to make life easier. DF was able to stay at home till he passed away in hospital, but it was relatively easy for DM to care for him as everything was set up ( he was 10 years older)
DM's health and mobility have been failing her since she was mid 70 despite a healthy lifestyle but she's coped well ( recently with daily carers and a gardener and weekly cleaner) We're all local and popped in very regularly too, and dealt with appointments etc.

Now she's had a more serious heath issue, and been in hospital then rehab. She could go home even now as it's so well set up, but she'll still need round the clock care. She's opted for a nursing home now as live in care is so expensive ( bungalow will be sold to pay for the residential care)
But the thing is, she prepared for all this and stayed more or less safely at home a lot longer than if she hadn't.
I still wish she'd done a bit more planning around POA and ReSpect forms, but she was quite sure she was invincible. You can't have everything of course but it would have made our lives a bit easier.
DH and I are having conversations with our families, and considering how we'll plan, and we're not quite in our 60s yet. We're not thinking of moving at the moment, but a bit of Swedish Death Cleaning has been done, to make things easier later ( it's just crap we didn't need that's gone, we retain all the important stuff)
I just don't understand how people seem to think that age and/or ill health will never happen to them! If we don't plan for ourselves, them some other poor bugger ( usually our adult children) has to deal with us when a crisis hits. That's a lot to ask of anybody!

Sounds so like my MIL, all the walking aides but she knew best and 'didn't need them'.

The final straw was falling and breaking her hip which left her in hospital/rehabilitation for months then straight into permanent care.

I was so worried about DH at the time with the stress and guilt, the constant phone calls when she fell yet again etc. Having to leave work, drive to her house, sit and wait anything up to 12 hours for an ambulance (during the worst of covid).

All you can do is refuse to collect her from hospital, get social work involved and try everything to get her moved into a care home. You need to be assertive otherwise they'll try and push it all back on the family.

Ask the ward discharge coordinator and/or her medical team to talk to you about capacity and if they feel a best interests decision may be required. If she is deemed to have full capacity though there is very little that can be done. Good luck

Wonder if the increasing use of HRT in mid life will have a beneficial effect on women's bone density as they grow older? It would have been less common for the women now in their 80s and 90s to have used it.

My mother was on Tamoxifen for five years and never had HRT at all and her bones are pretty fragile now, although she has never been underweight.

I don't understand why people always suggest this. My mum would have been far better upstairs in her bedroom near the bathroom.

Rates of dementia and physical frailty are decreasing as both sexes work now, people are getting heavier and diets are getting less fatty.

I know Mumsnetters tend to have a Daily Mailesque attitude about weight gain - but a BMI of up to 30 is often protective for older people as they retain more muscle mass.

So a person who turns 70 in the next 20-30 years is going to much healthier in comparison to someone who turns 70 in the next 10 years.

I take the point that some think people should adapt their life when they reach 70 and I know it's a well intentioned thought but moving house is a big step. The retirement age is increasing towards 70 and many people work beyond 70 these days. If they want to continue in their own home, I suppose it's a personal decision except where the person loses capacity, but that can happen younger or older than 70.

Exactly, and keep reminding them too. I say it after every comment "yes well they don't have a job" they always go quiet but then say it again another day..
It's infuriating, and makes you feel guilty and like you're not doing enough even when you're on your knees. No way am I doing that to my kids.
Can't tell you the instant relief I felt once the carers were involved, like literally felt lighter the moment it was arranged.

A commode would be better, with a care worker twice a day to empty it. They can also prep food if necessary, check she's taken medication, etc. And make it clear that if she won't accept paid carers in her home, she'll end up in the care home.

Wrt decision making - it’s important to bear in mind that most elderly people have some degree of cognitive decline. And most people living with dementia do not have a formal diagnosis. In high income countries only 20-50% of dementia cases are recognised and documented.

People who are very frail are emotionally and mentally fragile too. They find it hard to think things through properly, to make decisions, to get their head around complex issues, they may not be able to use the Internet so they can’t research options. Even without dementia elderly people can become very childlike - anxious, demanding, stroppy and slightly out of touch with reality - thus they are not necessarily in a position be making the best decisions for themselves.

DM has probably lost touch with just how far 500 miles round trip is. All she knows is that she needs someone.

@Disturbia81 I've found with mine and the "so and so neighbour's daughter visits every week" comments that she's completely ignoring very different life circumstances.

So and so neighbour is a few years older than DM, had her child(ren) younger so the daughter is in her 60s, retired, own children grown up. I don't envy the daughter but she must have far more flexibility with her time than I do in my 40s with a full time job and children at primary school.

I just have to grit my teeth and remind myself of this!

Safeguarding isn't a thing for someone who knows what's going on but is making their informed decisions about what's best for them.

Her decisions are not informed and she’d ending up in hospital repeatedly which is no way shape or form what is best for her.

She’s frail and couldn’t possibly manage a move or organise a care agency herself. That’s when relatives have to take responsibility and step up. Otherwise she will die from a fall or the consequences of one and it will be on DH.

At this point she either needs live in care 24/7 or residential care.

I love that the vast majority or maybe all of these posts are supporting OP and understanding, rather than "have her live with you", "he should keep doing the drive etc"
That's the way to a breakdown or harming our own health, when we have so many other responsibilities at this age.
Carers are available, it is their job. I arranged care for mine after him being stubborn for a long time and all of us run ragged, I don't drive and had to get buses and trains and managing a job and small kids. Whilst juggling frequent long a&e visits and care. It's hard not to feel angry at them for being so selfish, it's usually our busiest times of our lives. When there are places and people there especially employed for all this.
The soft part of me knows they want their family and are scared, but it just can't work.
Also the comments "so and so's child visits every day" "so and so stayed at a&e the whole time"
Yes well they don't have a job, or they are a boss so can take off whatever time they like, don't have their own kids etc.
The people you love more than most in the world can really make you feel bad and they know they're doing it, which is upsetting.

When he decided to stop his care, we said "okay so you don't need it anymore so we don't need to come either" he relented after a few weeks and started it back up again.

These are hard times OP and it can't carry on like this, your husband needs to be insistent, firm.. unfortunately I had to get like that even though I've never been like that with my parents before so felt strange. I had to almost be the parent.

@GranPepper it can change in a moment though at any age. Better to do the planning earlier rather than later.

In the last three months two 60-something men and one 50-something man I know have gone from being incredibly fit and healthy, cycling miles every day, two working (one with small children at home) to heart surgery after a heart attack. Two had stents and were home relatively quickly. One was in hospital for weeks, open heart surgery and then also had a stroke.

I'm so sorry this is happening to your family. Try and stay connected to compassion rather than blame. Imagine you've lost your husband and you can see your own health failing, it must so awful to add the potential to lose your home into the mix as well. It's like there is nothing left of her old life that she loved and everything is quickly disappearing... including her sense of self probably. Her independence as she sees it is all that's left.

Legally if she is able to make decisions for herself it doesn't matter if they are unwise or impacting on anyone else's wellbeing. Safeguarding isn't a thing for someone who knows what's going on but is making their informed decisions about what's best for them.

I know you're not looking for advice but our local Carers UK and Age UK have excellent resources and support for families.

It depends on the particular layout of the house I guess, but my mother doesn;t have a problem with hers. She has two frames, one for upstairs and one for downstairs. The seats of chairlifts swivel through 90 degrees (either manually on the cheaper versions or automatically on more expensive models) so you walk in the frame to the bottom of the stair lift, rotate seat, sit down, rotate, use the lift and then rotate and get up and start using the frame left at the top of the stairs.

You are right and the lack of suitable housing is a huge part of the problem. It really annoys me how many developers are delivering countless student houses but none for older people. The government needs to regulate service charges. We looked a ground floor flat in London where the service charges were £400 a month! I bet most of that is for the management company! There needs to be action from the top!

What I would like to do is to move into an apartment so everything is on one level, there's a walk-in shower, a lift, maybe a balcony. What really puts me off are the leasehold charges. I live on my own and I just can't afford to be in a position where the annual charges are raised to such a level that I can't sell and I can't stay.

Look into LA housing. Some estates are lovely and service charges are much lower than in private blocks.

We are 65 and living in a house that is too big and will be totally unsuitable if we develop any mobility issues - very rural, very old, narrow twisty stairs and only accessible up a footpath. Our plan is to move next year and to look at our longer term needs e.g. downstairs loo and shower, stairs that could accommodate a stairs lift etc. We are well aware that one day in her mid 70s apparently fit and healthy MIL walked into town, met friends for coffee etc and in the afternoon had a catastrophic stroke that that left her severely disabled and completely dependent. But we are also aware from experience that even living in a small bungalow won't stop falls once you lose strength in your legs.

I completely agree with you about people over 70 making plans for the future years. I have osteoporosis and live alone. What I would like to do is to move into an apartment so everything is on one level, there's a walk-in shower, a lift, maybe a balcony. What really puts me off are the leasehold charges. I live on my own and I just can't afford to be in a position where the annual charges are raised to such a level that I can't sell and I can't stay. There was a piece about it in today's Guardian that was absolutely terrifying.

It's actually really frightening me as my lovely home now isn't going to be suitable for me in the future and I can't think where the hell will be.

@GranPepper I do t think it matters how fit you are, you should still make plans. The sad reality is that you just don't know what is ahead. My mil is 80 and bright as a spark with no issues. my dad is 74 and has dementia- the years he has of independence can be measured on on hand. He also has a heart condition but he was as fit as a fiddle for years, ran, played golf, squash.... always on the move. His mother (my gran I posted about) has only been dead for 8 years.

You are better to make plans while you are able to do so.

I like the idea of the 'Swedish death clean'. That's one easy way you can help when you are still fit. Get rid of all the sH@t you don't need so your kids don't have to.

Old age now can now last 40years and no one talks about it. There's no decent guide out there about what happens as you age and what to expect. I hope when I'm old it will change. I'd like to live in some sort of commune!

I had a very similar situation as of late, with my DD. He had mobility issues and was living alone in a ground floor flat with all the adaptations, carers in 3 times a day, yet was falling almost daily. He had the fall alarm pendant, which would go off, notify an ambulance and my and my sister, 80% of the time he would be taken to hospital where he would spend 1-3 days, then released again.. this cycle went on for a year. Me and my sister were at our wits end, and we live very close to my father.
Eventually, we established that for as long as we kept going running, and picking up the pieces, the less social services intervened.
Eventually, during one hospital admission, we said we can't do it anymore. They HAD to come up with a discharge plan which meant he was safe, and they wanted to, because hospital staff were raising concerns with the multiple admissions. They placed him into a residential home for a short period, the falls STOPPED. They then took him back out, sure enough, the falls started again. And just as frequent, hospital multiple times a week. They eventually placed him into a care home for a longer period of time, 8 weeks, they then tried to move him back home which we appealed. The proof was in the pudding. In those 8 weeks, not 1 fall and not one hospital admission. We won the appeal, he now resides there full time and is thriving. My dad isn't elderly, he's in his 60's. But he knew it was the best thing for him, he was miserable spending hours upon hours on a cold floor waiting for an ambulance crew to arrive and being in and out of hospital. BUT it did take a while to get there with him.
As difficult as it is, I'd advise your DH to stop going running. If she's being too stubborn, she has to deal with the consequences and so do social services. There is little he can do, besides run him self raggered in the meantime, which isn't helping nether party. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

It worked for me and my sister. We have our lives back, my DD is happy and healthy, the nhs is being blocked up by nuisance call outs or hospital beds taken up. It was a win win. X

I agree with much of what you say but not the age. My DH is not far off 66 and very fit and able. He cycles about 6 to 7 miles every day. He is unlikely to be in elderly need anywhere near 70. Meanwhile, I am 59 and do not keep well after 40 years working life. I think it depends on your genes and upbringing to some extent.