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Elderly parents

Where do we go from here?

510 replies

GnomeDePlume · 16/10/2024 23:25

Up until 4 weeks ago DM(85) was doing fine. Lived alone in a bungalow with family member close by calling in regularly (most days) for general chit chat.

Then she took a fall and broke her leg requiring surgery.

In these 4 weeks DM has declined so much. Her short-term memory is shot. She has stopped eating, she still chooses food but then just pushes it around a bit without managing more than a mouthful. She still drinks water but isn't interested in any other drink (she used to be a big tea drinker).

DM is now in a ward waiting for discharge to another hospital where she will do some physiotherapy.

It all seems too little, too late. She isn't getting out of bed. Her world has shrunk from bungalow, well tended garden, clubs, to the tray over her bed.

Is there any coming back?

I'm not sure what answers I'm looking for. It all feels a bit miserable at the moment.

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GnomeDePlume · 19/01/2025 18:06

DM is now settled back in her care home but is horribly tired.

Nursing assessment tomorrow. I do wonder if DM could do with a couple of weeks of bed rest. She is currently back in the residential section.

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helpfulperson · 18/01/2025 14:17

Crikeyalmighty · 18/01/2025 10:44

I think one issue is when you and your DH / partner aren't quite on the same page- my lovely FIL is 85 and so far doing really well and needing no care of any kind, but my H can't stand any mention of anything involving care, medical stuff, safety stuff etc - he finds it all 'totally depressing' and shuts it down as he says 'it doesn't apply now' - closest he has got was persuading him to move ( exchanging on Monday) to a bungalow 20 minutes away .

Does your partner have siblings? If so please be careful how much input you try and have. My SIL pushed my brother every hard in certain directions for my mothers care and it's caused big issues.

GnomeDePlume · 18/01/2025 13:35

@Crikeyalmighty that must be so frustrating. DH shutting his ears and pretending it won't happen.

I do wonder if some people get stuck with an impression that one or other parent is immortal or unchanging.

There is the risk that decline or risk gets missed. Failing memory is dismissed as a temporary blip. Trip and fall hazzards get ignored.

My DB is caught by a few things: hates change of any sort, anything going wrong must be somebody's fault, he has to be in control.

DB does not want to accept that DM almost certainly has dementia. He doesn't want that to be true because if it is, things will have to change.

There will have to be an acknowledgement that DM no longer has capacity. The LPAs come into effect. The LPAs name DB and me. This means DB is no longer in control.

If DM has dementia then her 'non compliance' can't be blamed on DM being 'difficult'. DB would rather blame DM than just accep that this is the way of dementia.

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Crikeyalmighty · 18/01/2025 10:44

I think one issue is when you and your DH / partner aren't quite on the same page- my lovely FIL is 85 and so far doing really well and needing no care of any kind, but my H can't stand any mention of anything involving care, medical stuff, safety stuff etc - he finds it all 'totally depressing' and shuts it down as he says 'it doesn't apply now' - closest he has got was persuading him to move ( exchanging on Monday) to a bungalow 20 minutes away .

GnomeDePlume · 18/01/2025 10:06

@Weenurse that is such a hard choice put on you.

I was grateful that it was the surgeon who explained the realities of resuscitation to DM. I do wonder if people see dramas and see the sanitised portrayal of resuscitation.

Today is a day of allotmenting and sewing. Tomorrow I will visit DM in the afternoon when I may get to see her awake at last.

Much of my role in DM's care is to do the practical things. DB is retreating ever more from actual engagement with staff etc. He wants me to do that.

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Weenurse · 17/01/2025 21:21

@GnomeDePlume we have also done POA and advanced care directive when we updated our wills a couple of years ago.
Our family do know our wishes.
My confusion is with FIL, he is 93 and lives with BIL but spends a week or more a month with us. He has always stated he was angry we took him to hospital 6 years ago when he had a brain bleed and needed surgery. He was upset we didn’t let him die then.
I had a conversation with him when he started staying with us regularly. He likes to garden and fix things so I asked him, if he keeled over in the garden, was I to let him go or try to resuscitate him ( remembering the conversation after his brain surgery).
His response was I could try to bring him back!
Now I hope I am not home if anything happens as what do I do?
Glad DM is back at the care home and being assessed for her care needs.
Might be time to discuss with DB and care team at what point do you transfer to hospital and at what point do you do comfort measures only.

helpfulperson · 17/01/2025 19:52

My mum is also past these conversations but fortunately (or unfortunately) she had made the same decision for my Dad at the same stage so we knew what her views are.

Anjo2011 · 17/01/2025 18:45

@GnomeDePlume I think this is a good approach to the future. Hard as it is there will be reoccurring emergency’s and at some stage enough will be enough for your DM. Having a plan is always a good idea. I hope you have a bit of time to yourself this weekend.

GnomeDePlume · 17/01/2025 17:43

DM is beyond having that sort of conversation now. Even if we were to have the conversation she would have forgotten what was said immediately afterwards.

Just before the surgery DM was asked about DNR. She said quite robustly 'I'm not ready to go yet!' but the surgeon explained the realities and a DNR was signed.

DM is now back at the care home in her old room with a nursing assessment booked for Monday. DM has declined significantly since going into hospital this time. She is no longer able to feed herself and bowel continence is now an issue.

I don't know if these things are permanent or just something which will take time to resolve. It is possible DM will be moved to the nursing care unit within the care home.

@WinterFrog it is probably easier to have these conversations (hopefully) further out. I have now started to discuss this with DH. We will be doing our LPAs in the next few weeks. I am intending to add an Advance Directive to decline any treatment other than palliative if I am unable to give informed consent.

I don't see this as gloomy, to me it is positive. I want to enjoy my life. However, I have always been someone who likes to leave a party early rather than staying to the end.

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WinterFrog · 17/01/2025 13:07

My mother won't talk about it either @Projectme It's considered 'being negative'. It's very difficult, isn't it? 😔

Projectme · 17/01/2025 09:42

helpfulperson · 17/01/2025 08:07

This might be a good time to start the conversation about the next time. My mum lives in a small nursing home and it has been agreed that she won't be admitted to hospital unless it is an acute injury. Any illness will be managed in the home by the nurse with the local GP and District Nursing team.

Seems so sad to be doing a 'future plan' like that (and that is, in no way, a criticism) but you have to, don't you. My DM who had a DNR which has mysteriously disappeared 😑refuses to have 'those kinds of conversations' with me/DF. If only she would be more open and accepting, things would be a little easier, for me but unfortunately, it's not about me, it's about her. Makes things so difficult.

helpfulperson · 17/01/2025 08:07

This might be a good time to start the conversation about the next time. My mum lives in a small nursing home and it has been agreed that she won't be admitted to hospital unless it is an acute injury. Any illness will be managed in the home by the nurse with the local GP and District Nursing team.

GnomeDePlume · 17/01/2025 07:49

Thank you @Weenurse . We shall see later today if the move actually comes off.

I have warned DB that we need to see this as a temporary reprieve. Each go around the UTI block has left DM lower physically. If DM is infection free now, another UTI will be waiting in the wings.

This sounds a gloomy prognosis I know but we need to be realistic. Enjoy each day as it comes.

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Weenurse · 17/01/2025 07:18

I hope she has settled back into the home

GnomeDePlume · 17/01/2025 07:11

@WinterFrog if not the same chain then certainly one very similar. I hope your DM is settling in her new environment.

So far I have no complaints. One of the team contacted me a few days ago to ask how DM was doing.

I was in the care home a couple of days ago to pick up pjs and glasses for DM and one of the care workers unprompted asked after DM by name.

Of course DB has complaints but I think this is because he still hasn't got to grips with idea that the fees bring a certain level of service and furniture. If we want something different we have to provide and pay.

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GnomeDePlume · 17/01/2025 06:54

Last night DB received a call from the hospital to say that DM was being moved to the discharge lounge last night with the intention DM would be returned to her care home today.

Cue panic from DB as he is envisaging DM being flicked out of a wheelchair onto the front step of the care home.

It is all a bit hasty but the hospital is overwhelmed at the moment. Patients like DM do have somewhere to go. DM is getting better. Yesterday she was put into a chair for the first time. It took 3 people but was managed.

Any road up, I messaged the care home to confirm DM returning today and left DB to his panic.

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WinterFrog · 17/01/2025 06:49

GnomeDePlume · 16/01/2025 07:26

Thank you @WinterFrog and I'm thinking of you.

Yes, I think the set up of the homes sounds very similar. They do have a good staffing level and I find them very friendly.

From your description, it sounds like the two homes are part of the same chain. Staffing levels are good, and there is always someone to speak to when necessary.

WinterFrog · 17/01/2025 06:46

Randommother · 16/01/2025 07:56

Thinking of you @GnomeDePlume, I hope your mum Is ok, it does sound like she’s recovering from the latest set back. My mum is due to be discharged to a nursing home today, at last - she’s been in hospital since the start of Nov!

I hope it goes smoothly 💐

GnomeDePlume · 16/01/2025 09:12

@Randommother that is a long hospital stay. I hope your mother settles in quickly at the nursing home.

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Randommother · 16/01/2025 07:56

Thinking of you @GnomeDePlume, I hope your mum Is ok, it does sound like she’s recovering from the latest set back. My mum is due to be discharged to a nursing home today, at last - she’s been in hospital since the start of Nov!

GnomeDePlume · 16/01/2025 07:26

Thank you @WinterFrog and I'm thinking of you.

Yes, I think the set up of the homes sounds very similar. They do have a good staffing level and I find them very friendly.

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WinterFrog · 16/01/2025 07:02

I am thinking of you still @GnomeDePlume My mother is in a home with the different units. She's in what they call assisted living. Halfway between residential and nursing. I expect yours was in the same? I hope your mother can be discharged safely back to the home and get the care she needs.

GnomeDePlume · 15/01/2025 22:17

No actual plan as yet but the words 'readied for discharge' were said to DB.

The care home will do their own assessment of DM's needs. We chose a home with different levels/types of care: residential, dementia, nursing.

It is possible that the home will say DM needs to go into their nursing unit first and assess again from there. We are keen for DM not to go to the rehab unit if it can be avoided. It isn't a great place.

DM has lost even more strength in the last couple of weeks. She wasn't walking before and now is only partially propped up in bed. I also don't know what DM's cognition is like now. I have only seen her delirious or asleep in the last two weeks.

Even if DM does manage to get back to her care home I think it will only be a matter of time before there is another infection.

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Anjo2011 · 15/01/2025 20:50

It does sound like there is some progress which is positive. Is their plan to discharge back to the care home? I hope they have the staffing levels to make sure she is eating and drinking. Has she managed any time out of bed? Thinking of you on this next step.

GnomeDePlume · 15/01/2025 20:38

@Anjo2011 Thank you for asking.

Turns out that the whole ward DM was in has moved.

DM is still on ABs but no longer IV. She is waking but still sleeping an awful lot. Fluids drip is also gone.

So sounds good but DM is eating and drinking very little and is needing to be fed.

But in hospital terms this is all good so they are getting ready to discharge DM.

I genuinely didn't think we would get to this point several times last week.

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