Please or to access all these features

Elderly parents

Where do we go from here?

510 replies

GnomeDePlume · 16/10/2024 23:25

Up until 4 weeks ago DM(85) was doing fine. Lived alone in a bungalow with family member close by calling in regularly (most days) for general chit chat.

Then she took a fall and broke her leg requiring surgery.

In these 4 weeks DM has declined so much. Her short-term memory is shot. She has stopped eating, she still chooses food but then just pushes it around a bit without managing more than a mouthful. She still drinks water but isn't interested in any other drink (she used to be a big tea drinker).

DM is now in a ward waiting for discharge to another hospital where she will do some physiotherapy.

It all seems too little, too late. She isn't getting out of bed. Her world has shrunk from bungalow, well tended garden, clubs, to the tray over her bed.

Is there any coming back?

I'm not sure what answers I'm looking for. It all feels a bit miserable at the moment.

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 12/02/2025 15:52

lazymum99 · 12/02/2025 09:52

I don't really understand the rule about care workers moving residents between floors. To me that is their purpose. In fact I always get a carer to do the moving when I am visiting they are trained for that. When in the lounge is there not at least a carer(s) wandering in and checking most of the time.
However, I have ended up calling a carer for another resident when I have been a bit worried about them. I’m probably not very popular!!

The issue is that DM is now under the care of the nursing unit within the care home. The nursing unit has its own care workers, probably with more/different training. If one stayed downstairs to be available to DM then they wouldn't be available for other nursing unit residents.

If DB or I take DM to the lounge, she has to stay in her wheelchair but we have taken responsibility.

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 12/02/2025 15:35

@PermanentTemporary similar I guess, DM grumbled to me that her parents had put raw onion in the salad she was eating which they know she doesn't like.

DM is 85.

I think she gets comfort from thinking of her parents as being still around.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 12/02/2025 10:07

When my mum was still verbal she informed me she was going home to Scotland. She left Glasgow in 1946.

lazymum99 · 12/02/2025 09:54

And she does regularly tell other visitors that she hasn’t seen me for months 🤷🏻‍♀️

lazymum99 · 12/02/2025 09:53

I’ve just reread my messages and it sounds like I’m there all the time. Actually I only visit once a week I’m afraid.

lazymum99 · 12/02/2025 09:52

I don't really understand the rule about care workers moving residents between floors. To me that is their purpose. In fact I always get a carer to do the moving when I am visiting they are trained for that. When in the lounge is there not at least a carer(s) wandering in and checking most of the time.
However, I have ended up calling a carer for another resident when I have been a bit worried about them. I’m probably not very popular!!

GnomeDePlume · 12/02/2025 09:42

@AInightingale unfortunately all the nutritional supplements DM has been offered have been types of milkshake which DM won't touch.

@lazymum99 the problem we have is that DM can't move herself at all. She is now even struggling to sit upright in her wheelchair.

DM is getting out of her room down to the main lounge, where she meets up with other residents for a chat. This has to be orchestrated by DB or me as there seem to be rules about care workers moving residents between floors. It's understandable, DM can't be just deposited in the main lounge. She needs to be checked on very regularly.

OP posts:
lazymum99 · 12/02/2025 09:16

Also have problems with the any sort of conversation now. But I think she is just happy to have us there i have also resorted to reading her paper and discussing what’s in it etc.
Is there entertainment in the home? If I can bear it going when they have music or a singer etc passes the time and she loves it

lazymum99 · 12/02/2025 09:13

i don’t know if the nursing home lets you do this but we find if we take some lunch in for us and sit chatting and giving mum a hand then she eats better. Also we bring her treats she enjoys such as chocolate and crisps! Anything is better than nothing. We leave the chocolate broken into pieces in a cup/bowl on side table in her room where if she is in her chair she can reach it

GnomeDePlume · 12/02/2025 09:10

@WinterFrog good morning!

That is very difficult for your DM (and therefore you) that she still believes she is going home. How is her concept of 'home'?

At some point my DM's concept of 'home' became a conflation of her childhood home and her bungalow. Now the bungalow has faded away and 'home' is now just her childhood home.

If DM were to move back to her bungalow even with 100 carers she probably wouldn't accept it as her home.

DB is still being difficult about getting a capacity assessment for DM. He is quite happy with the way things stand as it means he can control DM's finances. I have said he runs the risk of being accused of fraud as he is impersonating DM but to no avail. He huffs and puffs and gets cross. For an intelligent man he is remarkably stupid.

DB has raised his issues about staff attitude to DM (or his perception of this) to the care lead. I think his real issue is that they aren't defferential to him. He forgets that he is just a visitor.

He has muttered something about moving DM somewhere 'better'. I pointed out that the particular place he mentioned (more convenient for him) doesn't provide nursing care. Cue more huffing and puffing. Any road I will leave him to it. If he thinks there is somewhere better he can sort moving DM. He won't as that will mean him taking responsibility for something practical.

Sorry, morning rant after speaking with DB last night!

OP posts:
AInightingale · 12/02/2025 08:43

Isn't your mum on a weight management programme @GnomeDePlume ? We had this - it involves weighing the resident and giving them a liquid nutrition supplement. My mother had lost 6 kilos in 6 months purely for the same reasons you describe - classic 'anorexia of age' or just complete loss of appetite and interest in food - they started to give her the supplements and there has been a little gain back.

helpfulperson · 12/02/2025 08:31

My mum is very hard to converse with now. I read to her a lot. Your brother might find that easier.

WinterFrog · 12/02/2025 08:26

Morning @GnomeDePlume how are you and mum doing? Have you got any further with the mental capacity situation?
My mother is much the same. She's great if people manage conversations but it's clear that her short term memory is seriously affected now. I'm wondering if she's still having TIAs. My brothers find her difficult to converse with her, preferring to just keep her company, watching tv or reading her paper. They visit less often now. Still a couple of times a week though. They aren't bad lads. Mum has a couple of favourite ( male) carers who are gently flirtatious with her and make her laugh. They aren't inappropriate at all, and it makes her happy. She's still talking about getting better and going home which really hurts my heart. She knows she wouldn't manage at the moment but is still convinced that she'll improve.

GnomeDePlume · 10/02/2025 14:50

@WinterFrog I quite understand the fraught feelings. It is so difficult isn't it?

In many ways I feel that DM is gone. The person who is left isn't really 'her' if you see what I mean. I don't feel a lot of connection. We chat but not really about anything.

Today DB is banging on about DM not eating. She is in the dining room, she isn't interested in food at all. DB has convinced himself that the care home are starving DM to the point of collapse when she will end up back in A&E.

Also convinced himself that care home staff are rude and abrupt with DM. I have seen no evidence of this. They tend to be brisk but then they haven't the time to do the weadling and pleading with DM that he does and thinks is necessary.

OP posts:
WinterFrog · 07/02/2025 13:19

Sorry, i was tired and a bit fraught last night. Yes, I agree that options are presented neutrally @GnomeDePlume It's an excellent way of describing it. I hope the system evolves to something @PermanentTemporary describes. I used to work in care and being able to gently cajole using such means was once considered a skill. More recently we were trained to be really cautious. I mean it's good, there were also carers who did just insist on washes and changes of clothes and i reported one for showering a lady who was screaming. That was the year the mental capacity act came in. It really needs to be handled with care though.

My mum respond well to my ' I'm gasping for a cuppa, shall I put the kettle on?' I like it being termed cultural competence.

Best wishes all round!

GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 10:11

@PermanentTemporary exactly that! A little gentle social blackmail.

I think the staff are nervous of being accused of bullying residents hence the neutral questions. Unfortunately perpetual ditherers like DM then dont know what the 'correct' answer is.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 07/02/2025 09:10

Or better yet, 'I've made a pot of tea, can I bring you a cup?/Im having a tea, will you join me?' The implication being that the tea will go to waste if she doesn't have any, or that she's being mildly rude to refuse. That to me is cultural competence, because that kind of very gentle emotional blackmail is how offers from host to guest work in actually a lot of cultures, but certainly if we're talking older Brits that's how it is.

GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 09:02

@WinterFrog on the plus side your DM will be getting a lot of fluid from her food.

But as you say, it is the ever present risk of UTIs. The consequent delirium is terrifying for all concerned.

Capacity is such a tricky issue. While the resident should be allowed to make choices I do notice that often the choice is presented very neutrally.

If there is a 'better' choice that should be encouraged. So getting up, washed, dressed, eating, drinking are all generally better choices than doing the opposite. Especially if the better choice will improve mood/health.

Having choice presented so neutrally, at least for my DM, doesn't help in the making of good choices.

'Would you like a drink?' is neutral and all too easily declined. 'How about a nice drink?' is more positive. The implication is that the person offering wants to provide a drink. Obviously tone is important as well.

OP posts:
WinterFrog · 06/02/2025 19:21

The capacity thing, despite all the good reasons for it, can end up really endangering people, I think. It's very frustrating when were trying to keep our loved ones safe, isn't it? When someone is clearly confused and muddled.
@GnomeDePlume very occasionally, if it's hot, I have been able to persuade mum to have a glass of cold lemonade with orange juice. She's not touched squash for years. She's so bloody minded independent and won't be told what to do. Fortunately she eats reasonably well now so does get fluid via soup, gravy, a bit of salad, ice cream etc. Won't eat jelly. I get it to a degree - she fears wetting herself - but she got very cross with me when i said if she gets a uti due to being dehydrated that isn't going to help her continence. I am much nicer to her than I sound when relaying it, really I am. I know her brain injury means she can't quite understand certain things, but the frustration is making me want to scream, as we're all just trying to keep her well and safe.
Peace and love 🍷

GnomeDePlume · 06/02/2025 17:24

KnottyKnitting · 06/02/2025 16:03

Is there not a crash mat with an alarm next to her bed? That would seem to be a given for someone who needs her level of care. I wouldn't be happy about that.

No, we asked but as DM still has capacity (as she has not been formally assessed, yet) the care home had to ask her if she wanted the alarms and she said no.

Capacity assessment rests with the GP service (in fact DM's own GP) but nothing has materialised as yet. It has been requested.

Same goes for physio of which DM has had, to all intents and purposes, none since the fracture back in September.

I think that some of the problem has been that every time something has been requested something else more urgent has cropped up.

@WinterFrog I totally empathise with the drinking issue. Just as a thought, have you tried other drinks than tea and water? Diluted squash or similar.

OP posts:
WinterFrog · 06/02/2025 16:28

I nearly fell out with mine over fluid intake today. Despite the staff allegedly monitoring, she's clearly drinking very little. And then she makes poor choices. There was an old looking glass of water on her table today alongside half a cup of cold tea. We had a cup of tea together, but i was encouraging it all the way, much to her annoyance. I cleaned and refreshed her water and gently reminded her it's important to drink it. She said it's a waste of time as it just goes straight through her. I did point out that her body needs to absorb fluid to function, and it'll 'flush her pipes' and keep her brain sharp, but she was having none of it.
I feel your pain with all the complications @GnomeDePlume 🌻

KnottyKnitting · 06/02/2025 16:03

Is there not a crash mat with an alarm next to her bed? That would seem to be a given for someone who needs her level of care. I wouldn't be happy about that.

GnomeDePlume · 05/02/2025 19:14

@WinterFrog you are right about the drinking. DM only remembers if prompted and if tired has to be helped to drink.

DB and I are both a little bit concerned about the standard of care DM is receiving in the nursing unit. DB found DM having fallen off her bed when he arrived. Not hurt but evidence suggested there had been no plan to take her into lunch.

Of course it is perfectly possible DM had refused to go into the dining room and had chosen to stay in bed. If so that may be mood related.

The difficulty is that DM has a whole new care team so of course everyone is getting to know each other.

God, this is so complicated!

OP posts:
WinterFrog · 05/02/2025 08:02

What beautiful ideas! My mother is still able to look at her diary, so we've taken to writing in that. Did you fill in an 'about me' book when she arrived? We did ( although it's disappeared) and it's good for starting conversations with staff. I definitely think it's wise to connect with staff over these things. I've found they do things if asked, but otherwise simply deal with care needs. It's taken us this long to work out who is responsible for what as that's one thing nobody really explained at the beginning. It's got easier as we've got to know the team, definitely. I've recently got mum put on fluid watch, as she gets much more woolly when dehydrated. The carers use an app to log what she's drinking. She always has water beside her but doesn't drink it without a prompt - and then often argues because then she'll need a wee, which bothers her in case she doesn't make it in time, or like your mum @GnomeDePlume, doesn't want to bother the carers. She's in pads, but old habits die hard!
Continuing with the solidarity for you and all on these boards 🌻

KnottyKnitting · 04/02/2025 22:20

We used a white board with my DF ( with yesterday, today and tomorrow visitors written on it. )

We also bought a little Polaroid camera and took pictures of him with visitors and wrote the day on it so he could see who had visited. Helped for a while

Swipe left for the next trending thread