To ask for help defying a dying parents apparent wishes about care…

The other parent is not dying though.

Why is this all about 'them'- the other people?

So selfish- all of them.

Not sure if you’ve asked this to be moved but there are very supportive posters (and threads) on elderly parents and carers sections.
There are some on here too of course and main advice coming across really is to be very very firm with the hospital - they really are like the original double glazing salesmen tbh as getting someone home is their priority at minute.
Best wishes again OP.

100% this

And will the surviving siblings bit be travelling to visit? I understand 2hrs is not just round the corner but hardly the other side of the world either

I agree.

It is her other parent's house too. And the other parent is elderly and with mental health issues.

As I've said above, I nursed my own husband so that he could die at home. I'm all in favour of providing that kind of death. But this situation is very different from mine.

What is very upsetting about so many posts here is that the posters think they know best.

I would hate my kids to decide where I should die and take away my choice, if I was well enough to make it.

I am sorry but I think it is utterly wrong to deny anyone with mental capacity the choice of where to die.

Anything else is just about convenience for the family.

Hospital staff do not coerce dying people into anything. The nurses and medics on the ward also do not give a shit about which option is most expensive. They have asked your parent what they want and now must follow this decision. Your parent likely does have capacity for this as it is a very low risk decision as they will be supported by 24 hour care. I think you are being very cruel to over ride their last wish. It is your parents house not yours.

Hospice places are as rare as hen's teeth. When my husband was terminally ill, I naively thought that anything who needed hospice care would get it. But no.

My DH wanted to die at home. My heart sank when he said so, as I wanted to protect our daughters (20 and 22) from that. But we respected his wish and we were able to provide the peaceful end that he wanted, with the minimum of trauma to us.

BUT there were three of us at home to share the care, and we were well supported by district nurses, Macmillan and Marie Curie nurses. I was not a lone 80 year old with mental health issues and a fear of other people in the house. Those here saying that only the dying person counts, are being unfair.

Yes, the hospital will be encouraging the parent to die at home. They need the bed. You are going to need all the help you can get from your other parent's SS contact @Whyismycatanasshat . Good luck.

Does anyone have power of attorney for either parent?

It's worth saying that there won't necessarily be a bed at the hospice, and certainly doubtful if the person has weeks left to live. They would more likely end up in a nursing home or residential home with district nurse input when needed.

Having experienced both too but with private carers not doing the nursing rather than ourselves I still think the experience is far better in a hospice. My father took nearly two weeks to die at home. He wasn't conscious for most of the time in any case so wouldn't have known if he was at home or in a hospice. The hospice was a lovely, calm environment. There was someone there 24/7 with any issues. It was far more dignified and pleasant.

The thought of a woman in her 80s having to deal with all the issues around the carers and having all of that taking over her house is just appalling.

I would also suggest that you say your mother would not be on site to manage things and so going home is not an option. I agree that the hospital is trying to free up the bed so is putting pressure on your father in his confused state.

I’m so sorry you are all going through this.its incredibly difficult.
Have the hospital team also made clear that if something goes wrong at home like carer breakdown then your dad could well end up back in hospital in his last days anyway? or even worse in an ambulance or hospital corridor?
is that a risk your dad is willing to take?
I do not say this lightly as an ex hospice nurse and someone who cared for her dying mum -but are you or any of your siblings able to help on a regular basis despite the distance? As you’ve alluded to, the wish to die at home and the reality are unfortunately quite different sometimes. Sending love

I would be very careful about the care promises made by the hospital staff who frankly want your parent off the ward to free up a bed.

You don't need to rely on the NHS for this.

There is Hospice at Home, and also private nursing that can be used as well as or instead of the NHS.

We cared for Mum at home - it was her wish tho - and we had no carers because her condition took a fast downhill turn.

If you have carers coming in and a hospital.bed sorter, try and arrange time for your family to visit and help out too. Its the last days/weeks/months, so treasure the chance you have to care at this time.

Honestly, I look back on being with Mum at the end as a privilege.

@Whyismycatanasshat You need to investigate Hospice at Home.

No matter that your parent has changed their minds. We are all allowed to change our minds on anything but especially where we want to die.

The fact your other parent is vulnerable isn't really the point.
That- to be blunt- is their issue to own and manage maybe with medical support for that.

My Dad died in hospital. My mum wanted nothing more than to bring him home. But he became so weak that the moment when he could have been moved, was past.

It broke her heart that he died alone in the middle of the night without family there. She'd been with him for days, and days, but at 92 she couldn't cope with 24 hour 'caring' and did have to go home to sleep.

OP I’m so sorry for what you’re experiencing and for the loss of your brother. You are absolutely right to push for your dying parent to have a hospice place. I agree with the previous poster comment that going home doesn’t necessarily mean going to one’s home address. Your dying parents last coherent wishes were not to die at home, this is a tragic part of cancer affecting people’s personalities. Good luck and sending you strength for the days ahead x

I think a lot of what you are saying comes from genuine concern for your other parent but as to whether coming home now is the right decision depends on a few things the biggest being what their prognosis is, hospice beds tend to be used for getting meds right, stabilising patients and the very end, not for months at a time these days. My grandad came home against my grandmother's wishes but the hospice nurses came to him multiple times a day plus district nurses visited daily and a carer paid for by the nhs came in the morning to wash him. It was very peaceful.

I would be very careful about the care promises made by the hospital staff who frankly want your parent off the ward to free up a bed.

My Dad died 18 months ago. He had pancreatic cancer and also in his last weeks of life, had a stroke. He ended up on the stroke ward. There was no joined up care and nobody considering how desperately ill he was from the cancer.

Dad wanted to come home but he needed two nurses and equipment to go to the toilet. Mum wanted to do what he wanted of course but I had to step in and make everyone face reality. we were told we would have carers X4 a day and Macmillan could come at night. When I spoke to Macmillan they said the reality was you might not get X4 visits and Macmillan staff would not be there to do toileting etc. I would be amazed if you can have someone there 24 hours, unless you're able to do this privately.

We were told about hospital bed and joists and occ health were supposed to come and assess the house. I had to ask them bluntly what would happen if dad tried to go to the toilet at night when nobody was there to assist and they were honest and said he'd fall and end up needing an ambulance.

No way at all Mum could have done this and coped. She couldn't have helped lift him.

What the hospital put our family through (a catalogue of other stuff) was horrific. They were trying to get him to go into a nursing home instead on the Tuesday. I was told he wasn't ill enough for a hospice. The consultant finally saw him Wednesday and said he was too ill to move. He died on the Friday.

If you can get hospice care, I absolutely would.

Unless your parent is significantly more mobile and your other parent can cope, then I would not agree. But I know how very hard it is to say they can't come home. It broke my heart.

It's not cruel. It's the truth.

How rude of you to use such language simply because you disagree.

Is it possible your dying parent is assuming your other parent is willing and able to provide care. While I think your dying parent has a right to choose where they live and die, and should be supported in that, your other parent also has a right to absent themselves.
so if you explained to the hospital that your surviving parent could not cope with their OH dying at home and will move out, that would probably alter their plans. Your surviving parent could move to a residential home for a brief stay, or to your house. It would probably just be a bluff but honestly I would stand firm on it. I wouldn’t care
what people think about it, they might think you are all heartless, but it’s easy to think that when you are not up all night alone with confused suffering loved ones.

I don’t know how poorly your dying parent is, if you are looking at months, a nursing home might be best. In our area hospices accept patients with a week or so left to go, they are very full and very strict.

Even if Relative does has capacity, the law says his best interests don’t override anyone else’s.

NHS always forgets that bit, cos it’s cheaper.

I've not read every single thread but my gut reaction is 'If we can't have a say in where we want to die, without a family arguing, that's pretty shocking.'

This isn't about you @Whyismycatanasshat
Or the remaining parent.

Being very blunt you're going to have to suck it up and let your mum or dad (whichever it is) have their choice of where to die.

I've experienced my late gran dying at our home (from cancer) when I was in the middle of school exams (decades ago.) It was peaceful and she was asleep mainly on drugs.

I also have close friends whose husband, and father, both died from cancer at home with 'hospice at home' care that worked well.

I think you need to try to stop controlling this and allow your parent the choice over their final days.

Can I ask if it's possible at all for your other parent to stay somewhere nearby? Is there anybody who could take him or her in? (And please could we make this easier and know which is which - mum or dad?)

Well good for you but I have many regrets about how my mum died, uncomfortable and in pain.

Er, how long is ‘dying’? Your problem happened to a friend’s DF. Friend took him from hospital with a few days to go - he was 95.

Five years later DF was still in the living room. He was turned, tube fed, nappies changed by 1x daily carers. (DF had a heartbeat, that was about it).

Our local hospice took him for a fortnight annually, which is now standard practice as dying can be as long as a piece of string.