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Elderly parents

DM defrauded - lost £1000’s!

34 replies

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 18:43

DM is in late 80’s and lives alone (but close by) in sheltered accommodation.
She was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and dementia last year ( sort of by accident … but that’s another story!) but she is normally very ‘with it’ and together. Her memory is actually better than mine! We were beginning to think that the diagnosis was a mistake … until yesterday when she acted completely out of character.

Yesterday she was a victim of a £14k fraud / burglary carried out by two individuals pretending to be from her bank: one on the phone and one who turned up at her door. They worked together to rob my mother under the guise of transferring her account to a new branch that they claimed ‘would opening nearby next month’.
In total they took £14k from her current account, £250 of cash she had in the house, and her iPad complete with her card reader and her banking pin 😩

If I’m being fair, the stars were probably more than averagely aligned for the fraudsters… Mum hates having to go by bus to her most local bank branch since they closed several months ago and so her interest in having a new local bank was piqued from the get go. Also she had recently been chatting with a neighbour about a mobile branch of Barclays that had been around locally and so when the fraudsters suggested coming round to ‘help her’. She didn’t think it too odd.

I am stunned however that she didn’t suspect anything was up until the fraud was well and truly underway - she watches all those daytime tv programmes with Gloria Hunniford about scams and we always tell her not to give out her banking details to anyone even if talking to the actual bank but yesterday she just stunned us. For one she gave out her card number on the phone including pin, secondly when asked about recent transactions on her card she just handed over her stash of cash for the thief to count as she’d got it out of the wall the day before and thirdly she let the guy walk off with her iPad under the guise of checking something in his van! It’s pretty shocking tbh. Shamefully I was so annoyed with her when she told me and I had to try very hard to keep calm and not get mad at her .. with hindsight they worked hard to confuse her with a intense two pronged attack and I feel terrible for her now… I was just so shocked that a normally sensible person would do all those things! I’m grateful of course that she was not harmed in any way and shaken about how things could have gone another way so maybe it was good she complied?

Thankfully the bank will make good the money taken and her contents insurance should cover the iPad and cash and it looks like the police have found footage of the thieve on cctv. We disabled the iPad as soon as we knew it was gone. Going forward I really need to set some parameters in place so this can’t happen again and she agrees this is for the best. I already have power of attorney but need to put this into practice with the bank. I have suggested to her, and she agrees, that I do all her Internet banking from now on and she will not be privy to the log on information or hold the reader. Instead of her having her debit card we are going to transfer a set amount a month onto a pre paid card and I will get out small amounts of cash for her when she needs it ( she pays her cleaner by cash and likes to use cash when out and about). Does this seem reasonable? I don’t want to clip her wings too much as she is still very independent and enjoys eating out, buying clothes and knick knacks etc but I feel she does need protecting from herself and others.

OP posts:
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MovingShadowS · 28/08/2024 17:35

Suggest getting power of attorney for health & wealth in place

Or make it a joint account with your name on it as well

You are not supposed to just take over someone else's online banking, without following the correct protocol

Secondly, get a new account set up with new PIN & login details that are different from the previous account. The bank should help you to do this.

Sympathy & Good luck

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 25/08/2024 09:50

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:01

Thank you - I guess what threw me was that she acted completely out of character… can dementia get worse very quickly like that? I was expecting a more measured progression iykwim?
I’m now wondering if it was more likely that the fraudsters sort of hypnotised her into doing what they wanted? When she called me to tell me what had just happened she was saying ‘I’m sure this is ok but I just had this call / visit from the bank and I gave them my bank details’.

These despicable people know exactly how to make themselves sound utterly honest, trustworthy, and so ‘nice’!

The woman who first sucked a neighbour of ours into a ‘lottery’ scam that bled her of £100k, had told her in such a pleasant, helpfully friendly way that she worked for NatWest bank.

Newname7 · 24/08/2024 20:59

My dad has dementia - he is now in a home
but before that we gave him a monzo card which could be topped up from an app and we could see all his transactions in real time (useful if you think she may ever go walkabout as things progress)

PermanentTemporary · 24/08/2024 20:39

It's lucky I'm not in charge of the justice system because I would happily see scammers like this put to death.

Don't blame your mum or worry that she is now totally unable to cope just because she's been turned over by these professionals, but I think the protections you are putting in place are nonetheless very sensible. She's just that bit more vulnerable. But I've been scammed, so was my dad, when we were both a bit emotionally vulnerable bit otherwise fully competent. They are good at what they do.

Sailawaygirl · 24/08/2024 20:24

Agree with others that this is less to do with your mum having dementia and more to do with how persuading and forceful these scamers can be!
From what you have said her dementia doesn't seem to be too advanced as she can clearly go out shoping, knows what money is and what things should cost and she was able to tell you about the scam after.
Often on brain scans there can be lots of damage and the person still functioning ok , it depends on what bit of the brain has been damaged. Some times it's only a small change in the 'wrong bit of brain and that has a hudge affect ( damage in language area for example has big impact )

Knotaknitter · 24/08/2024 20:21

It was 2019 but I'm struggling now to recall the detail - it's been a rough five years. I know the police were involved and the only reason it came to light so quickly was that a tradesman working in the house overheard enough to be concerned. I was on holiday when it was discovered and by the time I got back no-one wanted to speak about it. I think it was about £15k, a shock to me as I didn't think she had any savings at all.

Redglitter · 24/08/2024 20:13

In your Mums defence any possible dementia may have had no bearing on it. I wouldn't go panicking about her deteriorating based on this

I work for the Police & people far younger and way more tech savvy have been scammed of a lot more. These guys are literally professionals. They'll have realised from your Mums reaction that a new bank opening was the perfect hook

They're so clever in their tactics and plausible with what they say - which is why they're so successful. Their victims won't all be elderly ladies

I.hope your Mums OK & realises it wasn't her fault

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:59

Knotaknitter - I’m so sorry to hear that. These people are scum indeed! Did they catch the coacher?

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 24/08/2024 19:47

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:40

Im so sorry to other posters whose relatives have been scammed. We notice they seem to target mum’s building like wasps to honey as it’s sheltered accommodation. I agree totally that they should have cameras on the door. They have a manager but is absolutely useless and hardly there.

I’m definitely looking up the phone service that lets you filter calls - thank you!

This is what my mum uses for the phone:
https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/About-CallSafe/ta-p/2204784

I'm sure other providers have similar.

About CallSafe

Wouldn't it be nice to pick up your home phone, always knowing it's a call you really want? No nuisance callers, no sales pitches, no scammers. We're helping you get just that. All you have to do is switch on your FREE CallSafe.  To switch CallSafe on,...

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/About-CallSafe/ta-p/2204784

Knotaknitter · 24/08/2024 19:45

After MIL was scammed (which included someone coming to take her to the bank and coaching her what to say) she was terrified of the phone afterwards. She would not answer a call from an unknown number which meant that she would never take a call from the NHS. It made things very difficult in her last few years at home.

She got the money back but not her confidence.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 24/08/2024 19:45

People with absolutely no cognitive impairments get caught out by scams all the time. These people are very very skilled in what they do, they are slick and fast and confuse and bamboozle - they have an answer to every question. You only have to watch the programmes where head teachers or police officials get scammed to realise this.

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:40

Im so sorry to other posters whose relatives have been scammed. We notice they seem to target mum’s building like wasps to honey as it’s sheltered accommodation. I agree totally that they should have cameras on the door. They have a manager but is absolutely useless and hardly there.

I’m definitely looking up the phone service that lets you filter calls - thank you!

OP posts:
SauviGone · 24/08/2024 19:32

I second the Ring doorbell so you can monitor every single visitor that comes to her door.

DH nan (who doesn’t have dementia and is generally as sharp as a tack) handed over £1400 earlier this year to a man who spent 30 minutes on her roof which he told her needed fixing, he could do it there and then and would cost £3k. She told him she only had £1.4k in cash at home and he said that’d do, got his ladders out and that was that 🙄. From her telling of it it was real high pressure “your roof is literally about to fall in and must be fixed today” stuff.

Had she had a Ring doorbell DH would have been notified and got to her house in 10 mins and told the guy to fuck off.

cupcaske123 · 24/08/2024 19:30

My mum has dementia and Alzheimer's. I was worried about this kind of thing as she flings money about with abandon.

She had tens of thousands in her current accounts so I put a load in a high interest ISA and a load in Premium Bonds.

I have safeguarding on her phone so only people she knows can call.

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:30

Myother & Time 4 … I agree 100%. They do bamboozle.. when we turned up to help her it was like she had been programmed by the thieves to think they were legit even when it was clear that things had gone. That’s what I mean by hypnotised. It was horrible. Thanks for all the kind words everyone!

OP posts:
time4anothername · 24/08/2024 19:24

you don't have to have dementia to fall victim to this type of scam. The perpetrators are extremely well trained in psychological manipulation. This is a great charity for advice https://wearehourglass.org/

timenowplease · 24/08/2024 19:24

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:15

Re ring - yes the police suggested that. There are cameras on the main entrance ( sheltered accommodation) but they don’t blooming work atm.

Edited

Not sure I'd believe that. I had the same excuse from Waitrose when thieves stole the catalytic converter off my car in their carpark.

Try and get the police to ask and also write a strong letter of complaint. They are supposed to be keeping people safe. Broken cameras don't do that.

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:24

When she had her brain scan a year ago everyone (medical staff included) were expecting a negative result as are performed really well in the tests and she is so with it. The only reason we had the scan done was because she had a bad episode of delirium linked to a bladder infection. The scan showed lots of plaque build up in two large areas of brain. I can only suspect the healthy parts of her brain are compensating the affected areas … but we really did wonder if there had been a mistake.

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MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira · 24/08/2024 19:22

My gran is fully with it, no dementia, very independent, socially active, travels. She got scammed out of nearly 10k , they had her on the mobile and landline at the same time convinced her there was something wrong with her internet, then took over her laptop remotely, she'd seen a btinternet van outside the day before, her internet was glitchy on that day and it all seemed to fit in. Once they had remote access to her laptop, they asked her to confirm security info under the guise of their checks, DOB, mother's maiden name etc and were able to bypass her online banking security, because they had some of her bank details and access to her email and she gave them the code that was sent to her phone.

They had her on the office for nearly two hours, and it was weeks after my grandpa died at the tail end of covid. They just completely bamboozled her. HSBC were unable to get the money back, but they replaced it as they had tried to call my gran on both mobile and landline because the activity looked unusual but if course the scammers had both lines tied up.
They are very skilled at what they do and apply pressure in a way it's hard to refuse without feeling rude. Don't be too hard on her they target people who are vulnerable and know exactly what they are doing.

A similar scam was tried with my dad who's in his seventies, but he's of a different disposition and told them to f off, he then did the same to his actual bank when they called him to say they'd seen some attempts at accessing his account, telling them where to go and hanging up so they had to write to him and he went into branch .... 🤦‍♂️ Luckily the member of staff in the branch thought it was funny

ShrubRose · 24/08/2024 19:19

Dementia is so variable. Even professionals get it wrong, imo.

I have a relative who was just signed off by the psychiatrist as having "mild cognitive impairment," probably because he showers, gets his groceries and keeps appointments.

But sometimes when I call in the evening, he will say things like, "It's time to get up!" or "I can't talk to you now, because ShrubRose is going to call me and I have to see what happened to her."

It's really difficult.

Echobelly · 24/08/2024 19:18

I'm sorry this happened, these people are the lowest of the low taking advantage of older people who, even without dementia, are vulnerable because they may not understand how banking works.

My step grandma has dementia, I think he daughter arranged for her phone only to accept calls from certain numbers so random people can't phone her.

Cocteautriplet · 24/08/2024 19:15

Re ring - yes the police suggested that. There are cameras on the main entrance ( sheltered accommodation) but they don’t blooming work atm.

OP posts:
lazybrownfox · 24/08/2024 19:14

I would suggest that you get Ring cameras too for her doors as well that you can be party to.

Kitkat1523 · 24/08/2024 19:14

ShrubRose · 24/08/2024 19:11

Going forward, it would be helpful to look into setting up some sort of authorisation arrangement on her accounts where, e.g. two signatures (hers and yours) are required for withdrawals and/or transfers. Things like that.

OP is going to take over her DMs finances ….it’s in the OP

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 24/08/2024 19:13

Any condition can rapidly progress.