PILs have cancelled carers and are now asking when we can visit

I think this is really common, as people in their 80s and 90s push back at the lack of independence they perceive as coming with carers. My BF has just had the same battle with her own 92-year-old dad, who eventually reluctantly agreed to move into a full-time care facility, but it took a lot of blood, sweat and tears (literally, as he had several really bad falls at home before he agreed to move) to get there. Hopefully they'll see sense eventually, but I think you just have to hang in there until then. Good luck.

This isn't even about the OP and her husband having a decent quality of life and not burning out (important though that is).

It's about the PILs having adequate care and support. They cannot be adequately supported by people who live 4 hours away. Having local carers is necessary. If OP and her husband attempt to take on the burden themselves, then even with their best efforts, the PILs will inevitably be failed and poorly cared for. It would be a terrible choice from everyone's point of view.

It's not callous, it's the real world.

There's a limit as to how much you can do for parents when you have your own life and family, especially if you are hours away from them.

I live 3 hours drive from my elderly mother and visit for a few days once a month. She has carers 3 times a day plus a gardener and cleaners otherwise she wouldn't manage. OP and her DH look like they are in a broadly similar position there.

The PILs did have support in place to cope in the intervening period between visits (carers). It seems that one of them (MIL?) cancelled the carers and now they are trying to to shift it all onto the shoulders of OP and her DH.

That's why they need to back off. Just speak on the phone regularly but don't go before the next planned visit. They need to realise that they can't do this and that they DO need the carers.

Maybe just send your husband since he is retired.

@NotSureWhatUsernameToChoose how do you know what you will be like if you ever get to that stage?

My DM lives in retirement flat. There are a number of residents there whose health has deteriorated. DM and I regularly have chats about these residents and how they should now be in a home due to their care needs. My DM can see that and talk about it rationally. If god forbid she gets to that stage not sure how rational and accepting she would be if we have to go down the care home route. Easy to say when you are not the person needing carers in the home or going into a home

Is this the new "did you move away from your ex, if so you should expect to travel"?

Glad you are feeling calmer after venting and your stomp round the block Op.

It is very hard, and I don’t know why, but in my experience, elderly parents can become very selfish and blinkered to other people’s needs. Sounds like you are your DH are on the same page, and that is what will get you through it.

You will all just have to wait for the crisis. It'll come and I'd be telling husband not to even think about bringing them home with him at any point.

I've been in your shoes. My DM with dementia would cancels DF's carer visits. Had to go down the capacity route with help from social services. I had Power of Attorney and was able to use it. Working with the care company they wouldn't vary visits unless they had spoken to me.

I also stopped rushing down whenever DM demanded. It was stressful and hard. If DH won't agree then he will have to manage his DP's on his own.

Never under estimate the pressure FIL may be putting on MIL. DM was very very difficult.

My mum kept doing the same as your inlaws. Ruddy nightmare.

Finally she allowed it to get to the desperate stage and then we all had to jump and sort out a care home in 2 days as she couldnt cope.

The lack of self-awareness of the decisions parents make and how it ultimately impacts children's and gchildren's lives still amazes me. Borders on selfishness and a total lack of humility and appreciation.

It may be worth enlisting involved professionals (you mentioned memory nurse and GP) and possibly adult social services to talk to them about help, clearly forewarned that no, "my son does not" from a distance of 4 hours travel. Make sure they know they have bascially refused arranged care well in advance of any visit.

What used to be called "the power of of a blue uniform" is dying out with older people today (probably no bad thing sometimes) but they may be more inclined to listen to someone not related.

I'm sympathetic to their situation but if this hump/mental block can be overcome, it does get easier to introduce things that will actually help retain their independence. Making sure everything is suggested as "this will help you and FIL stay at home safely", on repeat if needed.

Visit date? Never.

Not until carers come back, Dad.

Don’t fall for this one OP, it’s part of The Impossible Elder’s Script.

If your parents live in the same town, did you move away?

Your dh needs to ring their social worker and say he's unavailable for care so the needs are going unmet.

I wonder if it would help if you were to make a list on paper of all the jobs they both might need doing now and in the near future. Clearly mark the list to show things that you can help with (and how often) and things you can't. That can then be proof in black-and-white for them to refer to but also for the GP or care services as well. Take a copy for yourselves, and to forward to people involved in future care if needed.

Do they have powers of attorney set up? Your FiL's capacity to sign might be too far gone, but even sorting it for your MiL might ease some problems a bit further down the line.

I do understand your frustration, but, my DGM was cared for within our family home and I can honestly say there is a huge range of professionalism when it comes to carers. Being present when the carers are can be eye opening. More than once we had to dismiss someone after a few days.

Matching the individual with a carer is an important skill that agencies should have. My own DGM had a strong preference for younger carers and would be a lot happier and more co-operative with them.

This is your DHs place really but I’d encourage him to be present if another carer is put in place, just while each party is finding their feet and getting to know each other.

That was madness. Once a month would be more normal. I'd be telling DH if he wants to spend every weekend with his parents he can do so alone as you have other things to do.

Or the sometimes as effective that sounds awful, what are you going to do about that (obviously only if one of them has mental capacity).

Your DH needs to be firm and tell his parents the Carers must come back. He needs to tell his Dad that it's unfair on your Mum. Make a stand and just visit August 17th as you were planning too. Discuss with DH and tell him if he offers more frequent visits he'll be going alone. A 4 hour drive is no joke.

Tell your DP to contact adult social care and step away. They are not your responsibility

In my (very difficult) experience its necessary for things to start going wrong before Parents like this will agree to any changes.
I went through similar with my Mum and Sdad and until something awful happens they refuse to accept it.
It took for my wheelchair bound Mum to lie on the floor for 3 hours while my Demented Sdad walked past her repeatedly and ignored her for them to admit there was a problem.
Awful I know

My question is, who cancelled the carers? Does your MIL have independent access to money?

if it was FIL who cancelled the care, it may be he doesn’t realise how much help MIL needs…needs not wants.

your DH must be firm - carers must be reinstated, or no visits. People are usually one stage ahead of the assumed Alzheimer’s level. Your DH must ensure there is contingency in the plan. Once your MIL breaks (and it is likely) a home is the only answer. Your DH is not being caring ducking this, but is being complicit in harming your MIL. Sounds nasty, but it’s true.

can you tell I’ve been there and wish someone had said this to me - even though I wouldn’t have welcomed it at the time.

good luck