PILs have cancelled carers and are now asking when we can visit

@BlueLegume what would happen if the windows remained uncleaned and the grass uncut , and no shopping or meals done by yourself?

@I8toys thank you. All we hear is ‘I don’t want that’ so as reasonable people we ask ‘what do you want’ - in short we get no response but it is apparent she expects US to do everything. She is completely capable she just doesn’t want to do anything as it means she gets us in the house. But she gets a miserable poor version of us because we are just being taken for fools and feeling bad that she ‘can’t use the washing machine’, she can. She can’t go shopping, she can and does as neighbours tell us. A wise aunt of mine has suggested I in particular step back as she knows the impact it is having on my health and relationship- I live an hour away so 3 hours at mothers doing jobs, cleaning washing, shoppping etc is actually 5 hours away from my home. Does she care. Nope.

You need to stand united and firm and not do this.

My mother has a carer once a day. We do not live near her and for many reasons, I would not care for her. My brother is fairly nearby but has insisted he only visits once a week, which I think is right. My mother always wanted to get rid of the carer but knew she did not have alternatives. She has got used to having a carer now.

I wondered when the "stop infantalizing the elderly" would be mentioned.

Their children have to step in to sort out decisions for them that should have been made a long time ago. Burying heads in sand, putting off the inevitable until it all goes catastrophically wrong. Its alright saying oh I'm not going into a home, wheel me to Switzerland, we'll stay here in our home miles away from all family forever and then expect everyone to jump and step in when it stops working.

When they start to behave as adults and make rational decisions about the future - thinking not just of themselves but of their children. I know its difficult but its also for the benefit of your loved ones.

@AvrielFinch can I ask if my mother’s decision that she will not allow carers in, she will not allow a cleaner in, she will not allow a gardener to tend a large garden with 3 lawns, but she cannot manage it herself, she will not go shopping herself, she has cancelled the window cleaner…..so all of this now falls to me and my siblings - no discussion took place by our mother and her demands for the food she will eat basically means she expects us at her behest 5-6 times a week. We had no say in it it simply happened because she had capacity and decided that was what she wanted. Fair do you think?

I wouldn’t say most no. And with varying degrees of success and struggle. Too many elderly people who are caring for a partner acfually can’t cope with it. It impacts their own health and can lead to earlier death ime.

Alzheimers is a very difficult illness to care for and it’s too much for many elderly people.

OP is at the point that outside carers are needed as MIL is struggling and so she she/DH. And they’ve refused.

It could be but some people just refuse care point blank

The respite can be incorporated into the support plan if it is deemed to be an effective method of support.
However, the regular six weekly stay is not so current now. This is because residential homes often cannot keep a bed for respite use.
This can mean the cared for had to experience different environments which if they have dementia can be really unsettling and increase their presentation both in the respite and when they return home.

This may be deemed to not be in their best interest in accordance with the Mental Capacity Act guidelines.

And again, even if the cared for lacks capacity and the best interest decision is made for them to go to respite, if they refuse they cannot be legally removed from their home unless they are presenting in a way that means they need a Mental Health Act assessment. This would only be if they were presenting a serious risk to themselves or others. Obviously a person would be very unwell and in need of hospital intervention rather than transfer to a residential home.

I know this is so hard on the carer but needs of both parties need to be met lawfully.

I just wanted to add that those who care are entitled to restbite of up to eight weeks per year. The elderly person can go into a local home (order of St John or suchlike). If they have money they will have to pay towards it. I didn't know this until the month before my father died. I was on my knees caring for him. The care coordinator in our GP surgery told me. My father could have gone in every six weeks for a week to give me and my family a rest. Social services keep this very quiet. We are in the south shires.

'OP, I’m sorry you and your husband are in this position. Unfortunately it takes for an event such as a fall or hospital admission for a couple like your in-laws to realise that they do need support.'

Yes, sadly the dfil may fall or get a uti and require hospital care. His discharge will then be delayed as they don't have home care in place so a short term place in a care home will be arranged. This may then become permanent if home care is still refused as the mil won't be able to cope when he develops mobility and continence issues.

It, sadly, is what happens when elderly parents are adamant that they can cope. There is so much denial. I've assured our dc that when the time comes I'll follow their advice, the last thing I'd want is to cause them stress.

Carers are there to help yet so many view them as an interference and taking away independence when they are there to actually keep folk independent at home for longer. It's like when a frail 90yr olds won't stop driving as they don't want to lose their independence, just get a bus or a taxi they're still independent yet without the risk of killing anyone.

Even if that “decision” is that their adult children should care for them?

@SierraSapphire I know what you mean but I can't help reflecting that some of what you cite could equally be said by parents bringing up their offspring.
It seems to me that as people age their world narrows , they become more conscious of impending death and they just don't have the capacity to care much about things outside their immediate focus.

The problem is, though they make decisions that affect their DCs without taking us into account. It's very very hard to know that your parent is in pain or distress whilst you're telling them I can't come, I'm at work, or I have other priorities and commitments. It's the ongoing emotional impact and also it's not even possible to concentrate on work when you know that's going on. I'm not the only one who feels like my career, friendships, interests, and health have been severely damaged as a result of my DM's choices. We should just be able to say no, but in practice that is very very hard and has a different sort of negative impact.

Yes, in most couples one ends up caring for the other. Very few people refuse to help their spouse when they start getting ill. The question is at what point do you involve outside carers?

@Mirabai But OP can say no?
The issue was probably the carer and type of care being offered.

When the dementia becomes more severe, outside carers become inevitable.

Right. That’s where OP’s parents are now but don’t want carers. Instead they want regular help from OP/DH.

Edit: your mum was happy to care for your dad apparently?

And it always shocks me on these threads how many people want to treat elderly adults like children. For example wanting to force adults whose cognitive function is fine to have daily carers. Or wanting to force them into a care home. Elderly people as long as they have capacity should be making their own decisions.

Your mum might do better as a carer if more specific support was in place, rather than just generic carers. So an alzheimers group for FIL, a carers group for your mum, some practical help such as a cleaner or gardener.
Someone with alzheimers usually does not react well to change. A carer coming in who may not be skilled with people with dementia, may have genuinely made your mums day much harder. I know my father's dementia deteriorated significantly if he was at all out of his daily routine. New people could significantly worsen his behaviour. My mum was his carer and wanted no carer help because of this. When the dementia becomes more severe, outside carers become inevitable.
Most people being cared for by unpaid carers are cared for by their spouse, who is often equally elderly. So this situation is not uncommon. But sometimes it needs a more individualised approach to support the elderly carer than simply bringing in paid carers.

The OP will not be fine just because FIL has a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s.

A social worker would need to complete a Mental Capacity Act assessment regarding care and support.

Even if FIL lacks capacity re care and support if he refuses to receive care it can’t be forced on him.
It would need an order from the Court of Protection and this would only be granted if he was at risk if significant harm.

Also, POA can only be applied for whilst the person has capacity and is therefore able to nominate a person to be their POA in the event they lose capacity.
If a person already lacks capacity then a court appointed deputyship can be applied for.

This is a long and costly process, but in the meantime these people still need support.
Hence earlier suggestion of a softly softly approach.

OP, I’m sorry you and your husband are in this position. Unfortunately it takes for an event such as a fall or hospital admission for a couple like your in-laws to realise that they do need support.

The mil has full capacity. You can't just barge in demanding POA, if they are refusing carers I doubt they'll hand over stuff like POA.

The situation needs tact and patience.

Does anyone have power of attorney because you bloody need it now.

Call their local social services and explain what's happened. I'm assuming that Altzeimers has been diagnosed, so you're fine. Ram it home that you are four hours away and can't possibly step in. Repeat this. Report this to their GP via email do you have a permanent record.

PILS are being irrational and unreasonable. Do not be guilted into going up unless to get them committed. Otherwise you'll be taking care of them until they die.

Hm. And hm and hm again. It is the middle generation who leads the parade, not the eldetly, nor the under 18s. Someone has to learn the basics of life

Place marking as this is a very timely thread for me. Mil fell yesterday and fractured her wrist. She lives alone and now cannot wash, dress, cook even a simple meal or even eat properly with one hand. This has come after years of dashing over every time she has a crisis. Oh, and she won't have carers/strangers in the house. I can see I'm going to have to start saying 'no'.

Power of attorney is not appropriate. It sounds like the woman is the carer for her husband, but is struggling to provide the care and needs some help. You need a carer that has experience of and understands dementia. Lots do not.