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Elderly parents

Am I being overly sensitive about this comment?

89 replies

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 10:23

I think maybe that I am but tbh I’m so exhausted from everything in my life that I’m questioning myself.

Quick background.

My parents are elderly (early 80’s). My sister and I both live very close to our parents (we are all in the same village). Dsis lives with her partner and I live with my dh and dc.

Mum has been unwell during the last 6 years. She was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 2018. She has heart disease, is bent over with osteoporosis and this year was diagnosed with breast cancer. Mum lives with dad. Mum’s dementia is obviously getting worse but she can drink and feed herself, is mobile, toilets herself and still recognises us etc but is obviously getting worse and will never get better. They have a carer for an hour every morning to help mum shower and dress.

My sister and I help out as much as we can. I help more as I work part time and my dsis works more hours.
I pop in on my parents around 5 days a week and will help them with as much as I can with their day to day living. Tbh, I have done too much over the years but handed some of it over to my sister a few months ago as it was getting too much and I had a small breakdown over the workload and my own health issues which I’m struggling with atm.

My father is not always an easy man, he puts a lot of stumbling blocks in the way and can make our lives quite tricky and says no to a lot of suggestions for things which could make his and our lives easier but I do what I can because of my mum, she was a great mother.
But it is bloody hard work juggling my own life and theirs. Not made any easier by the fact dad has hundreds of thousands in the bank but refuses to pay out for many things, he seems to be from an era where he believes family should help out. As I say, I do all I can for them. My sister goes round about twice a week. One of these days she cleans (sometimes it’s once a week, sometimes once a fortnight). I refuse to clean a) because I despise cleaning and b)I’m not cleaning my parents house when they have £400k sitting in the bank, dad can easily afford a weekly cleaner but refuses.

To give dad a break and stimulation for my mum she goes to a day centre twice a week for afternoon sessions (12-3pm). I make her a packed lunch for these two days (which I pay for myself as dad has never offered to reimburse me). Currently, one of these days my dad takes and collects mum as I’m having counselling atm but when that’s finished in a few weeks I have offered to take her. The other day I usually take or collect her or do both so to give dad a few hours to himself.

So on to the issue which has upset me. This week we had mum’s usual 3 month review with the day centre. I always attend with dad as he likes the support. My sister is never offered to come and that’s her prerogative.

So we were chatting away and the day center carer said to dad that it must be nice for him to have a few hours to himself every week to do his own thing. He replied ‘Well, yes and no. By the time I’ve dropped her off it’s basically time to come back’. He never mentioned that at least one of these days per week I do the dropping off/picking up but I didn’t say anything.
She then said how difficult it must be for him to do everything himself. I gently added, ‘Well, we (dsis and I) do help as much as we can for you, don’t we dad?’. He replied ‘Yes, I have two daughters, one cleans for me and the other (looked at me smirking)….doesn’t!’. (My sister has always been his favourite child and can never do wrong).
I kind of laughed and replied ‘No but I do lots of other things to help you though don’t I?’ He then looked at me and said ‘Pfff, you? Help? What do you do? A few sandwich’s??’.

The lady looked uncomfortable at that remark and I felt so upset. It looked as though I do sod all for them when the truth is that I do everything I can to help my parents as I know my dad struggles to accept my mum’s diagnosis and their future and I hate seeing them both struggle.

I couldn’t help myself, when we came out I turned him and said that comment really hurt me and made me look as though I do nothing to help you and that couldn’t be further from the truth. He replied that I was being too sensitive and it was ‘just a joke’. I said but it’s not a joke, it was personal and hurt. He wouldn’t accept that and said I was being silly. He has form for being sharp tongued and taking the piss out of people, he spent his whole career in a male dominated industry where everyone took the piss out off each other and that mentality has never left him, he still does this to people and he has zero idea how much he hurts people or pisses them off.

Maybe I am being super sensitive but dealing with elderly parents and dementia is bloody hard work and tbh I don’t see it as a joke not at all. And he never seems to appreciate what we do for him, especially anything I do.

OP posts:
Ivyrosecrayon · 06/07/2024 16:23

You are not being oversensitive at all.
I have a difficult mother and I've learnt to just say what I think upfront. Especially about money.
She has more income than me and my husband yet would take the clothes off your back if you let her.
She relies on shame and guilt stopping you from calling her out.
But now days I just openly say.. 'you have more income than me and my husband combined I'm not paying for that.' If she tries nonsense.
I have also realised I was automatically doing things for her that she didn't do herself.. like cleaning.. bring round basic supplies.. because I didn't want anyone to think I didn't care about her or would allow her to live in squalor.
Thing is tho she could easily afford a cleaner.. she cam manage to go shopping for clothes in town by herself but apparently can't buy a hoover.. or bleach or bin bags or any boring necessary things...
I've learnt now to step back. I still feel the urge to come round with cleaning supplies and do it for her but I've realised this is a choice she's making..
I have 3 kids one of whom is a 4mo baby.. and I have a full time job to go back to as well... I am not her housemaid. It would be at the expense of my family if I were.
I know uts so hard to combat the guilt.. but your father is not taking proper responsibility for things whilst you step in..
And like my mother is pretending its your duty and/or the work you are doing doesn't exist so you don't need to be acknowledged or reimbursed for it.

Just stop doing it all. And if he talks nonsense about it you stand up for yourself abd you tell him straight what it costs you in money and time and the impact it has on your life.. and you tell him straight he could afford to pay someone a fair living wage for doing these things but instead he wants his daughters to make personal sacrifices for him.. and you tell him straight he is mean spirited and wrong.

PocketSand · 06/07/2024 16:08

In the early stage of MIL dementia my FIL berated her for not remembering birthdays etc. He refused any help from cleaners to carers. He would drive to the supermarket with her in nightclothes and leave her locked in the car in the car park. He would drive somewhere and take off - she would leave the car and become lost requiring police to find her. He would leave her sobbing in the car in the drive in nightclothes. He would take her comfort stuffed toys and pretend they had left to cause distress. She was not washed or clothed or toileted because it was too stressful for him. She had worked her whole life and had savings to pay for her care.

In the end she was admitted to a care home as he could not care for her. But then he transformed but really didn't. He was there all day every day and DOLS was instigated after he attacked staff and declared he wanted to remove her. He is still there every day years later, all day force feeding her and playing her nursery rhymes. If your whole life has been about controlling another it's hard to give that up. I think the staff should stand up to him but he is scary. Even after they called the police on him they still allow unrestrained access to a vulnerable person.

So sorry you are experiencing this - men should not determine what support a woman receives - especially when it means controlling her money/savings.

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 06/07/2024 10:09

I would file this under “dad is a selfish git”. Think no more of it- he isn’t going to change now.

I think guilt is something we all live with, when it comes to parents. I have DD and have vowed she will not be my carer and I’ll never ask her to do things for me. You don’t have a child so they can look after you when you get older! Quite a few of DH’s friends have emigrated, so they cannot provide care. They see parents once or twice a year and that’s it.

Do what you can, what you feel you want to do and leave it at that.

@thinkfast - also this. Remind him. (Don’t expect him to care though!). Look after yourself.

thinkfast · 06/07/2024 09:50

If I were you OP, I'd still look after your DM (to a reasonable extent and amount that you can cope with), but I'd start calling your DF out.

"Wanna make Mums sandwiches Dad? No I thought not"
"Wanna cut mums nails and wash her hair dad? I wonder who would wash your hair if you can't manage it one day?"
Etc etc etc
He'll soon realise how much you do.

MoveToParis · 06/07/2024 09:39

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 10:56

That’s exactly how I felt, completely shown up. It was such a passive-aggressive comment. The poor carer looked really uncomfortable. I couldn’t concentrate after that either and pretended to check texts on my phone. Luckily the session was coming to an end.

I think you should also be livid. But you know what, if he’s big and brave enough to dish it out he can absolutely be on the receiving end.

Given that you “make a few sandwiches” he can do without all the rest of the services he has felt entitled to without a whiff of gratitude.
And I would tell him why “Since it was nothing, you won’t even notice not having it. You know, I learned that other people should clean at your knee.”
“Why on earth would I clean up after someone as ungrateful and entitled as you are? You certainly wouldn’t, but then of course, you think shit-work is only for women, don’t you?”

His attitude is enraging, he’s absolutely brazen that cleaning is beneath him. Your poor mother, being married to such a pig.
And presumably he’s an absolute baby about it as well, that he has to be emotionally molly coddled.
You know what OP, you will feel so much better if you turn on him, go for the jugular, and let him experience all the decades of rage.

Theyearwas1973 · 06/07/2024 09:25

LizzieBennett73 · 05/07/2024 18:37

My late father in law lived in what we assumed to be poverty. Thread bare carpets, bed and mattress that were over 40 years old. No renovation or improvement to the house since purchased in the 1980s. It worried and upset me, as he refused to accept that DH's stepmother had dementia and he refused all help (we now understand that it was because he was expected to pay). When he died and DH was given the value of his estate, we both were both absolutely furious because although his stepmother wasn't a very nice person she really suffered in her last couple of years and that suffering was completely unnecessary. All because he would rather that money sat in the bank than help someone he was supposed to love.

I deeply regret not having involved social services, because hard as it is to say out loud, he was abusing her by witholding care that would have made her life easier. She had no dignity at the end.

That is just awful your poor stepmother.

OP posts:
FiniteSagacity · 05/07/2024 20:30

@LizzieBennett73 that is heartbreaking.

LizzieBennett73 · 05/07/2024 18:37

My late father in law lived in what we assumed to be poverty. Thread bare carpets, bed and mattress that were over 40 years old. No renovation or improvement to the house since purchased in the 1980s. It worried and upset me, as he refused to accept that DH's stepmother had dementia and he refused all help (we now understand that it was because he was expected to pay). When he died and DH was given the value of his estate, we both were both absolutely furious because although his stepmother wasn't a very nice person she really suffered in her last couple of years and that suffering was completely unnecessary. All because he would rather that money sat in the bank than help someone he was supposed to love.

I deeply regret not having involved social services, because hard as it is to say out loud, he was abusing her by witholding care that would have made her life easier. She had no dignity at the end.

leeverarch · 05/07/2024 17:11

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 15:56

She did look uncomfortable tbh. I hope they know. At the end of the day I’m there for every meeting, drop mum off and greet them every week and am the first port of call if they ever ring us.

My sister is on my side a bit more since I handed over some responsibilities to her but she and dad are very alike.

It might be worth arranging to go and speak to them at a time when your parents aren't there, and (take a list) explaining all the things you do for them, and that your dad simply doesn't seem to take on board everything that you have to do, and all he sees is that you 'make sandwiches' and your sister does the cleaning.

They need to know the score really, and they will then be better placed to help your mum (and advocate for you should the need arise).

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 16:59

BlueLegume · 05/07/2024 16:33

@Theyearwas1973 ’constant battle’. It is so true. Dealing with the general situation is a struggle and exhausting but I feel like while I am doing all the things for DM she thinks it is ok to be some kind of overseer/clerk of works/Ofsted inspector letting me know whatever I do it isn’t quite good enough. I have said it before having watched my Mum pick off really good people trying to help until they literally have to walk away my sense is ( and memory of how she has always treated people) she gets a buzz seeing people fall by the wayside. She likes the thrill of seeing a broken hull of a decent person. My DS made a great point. He observed that my Mum his grandmother has always been super competitive. He suggested her behaviour means she ‘wins’ however negative the outcome when people walk away due to being out of ideas etc.Almost like she is so special no ordinary person can help.

Edited

I do think my dad gets a kick out of it all sometimes but I also think he’s missing something tbh.
Like your mother, he has fallen out with so many people, he no longer has any friends and he’s fallen out big time with his next door neighbours, he previously got on so well with them but he upset the wife. I wasn’t there at the time but she’s adamant he was very rude and offhand to her and deeply upset her. Yet dad will absolutely never accept that it could be him, it’s always the fault of everyone else.
He is certainly missing that filter we all possess and just says what he thinks, please or offend and it’s often the latter!

OP posts:
Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 16:54

thesandwich · 05/07/2024 16:32

Somebody wise on here said “ we do it because if who we are, not who they are”

So true

OP posts:
BlueLegume · 05/07/2024 16:33

@Theyearwas1973 ’constant battle’. It is so true. Dealing with the general situation is a struggle and exhausting but I feel like while I am doing all the things for DM she thinks it is ok to be some kind of overseer/clerk of works/Ofsted inspector letting me know whatever I do it isn’t quite good enough. I have said it before having watched my Mum pick off really good people trying to help until they literally have to walk away my sense is ( and memory of how she has always treated people) she gets a buzz seeing people fall by the wayside. She likes the thrill of seeing a broken hull of a decent person. My DS made a great point. He observed that my Mum his grandmother has always been super competitive. He suggested her behaviour means she ‘wins’ however negative the outcome when people walk away due to being out of ideas etc.Almost like she is so special no ordinary person can help.

thesandwich · 05/07/2024 16:32

Somebody wise on here said “ we do it because if who we are, not who they are”

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 16:22

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 05/07/2024 16:08

When you stop caring about his opinion, you become better equipped to manage it.

At the moment he gets a bit of a boost at your expense. When you just smile, look at the carer/support worker/GP and say ‘Ah, Dad! You hate being dependent on us, don’t you!’

oh dad, Mrs Williams knows how often she speaks to me.

It’s ok, Dad. You don’t need to say thank you. I do it because Mum would want me to.

etc etc.

At the moment you are stuck in painful, ‘keep the peace, surely he cares’ mode. Let it go. You’ll feel better.

I’ll try working on that mindset.

OP posts:
Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 16:20

DollyBelle · 05/07/2024 16:07

One thing I learned via caring is that when parents get to certain age, you can’t change them.
If there is one who is being difficult and ungrateful, when you long for a bit of gratitude and recognition, you will be waiting forever. I was pretty lucky but I’ve seen so many friends looking after a parent who is rude to them and takes them for granted.
Any professional who comes into contact with your family will meet people like your dad every day. They will also meet carers like you who are given no thanks.
Keep being there for your mum as much as you can.
It can be a marathon and not a sprint.
I am not sure how things are working but it would be a good idea at some point for you and your sister to have POA and some ability to provide care, cleaning etc from that pot of money that your parents have.
Make sure you have regular time out.

Thank you. As you say, I’m hardly likely to change my dad now so I need to look at ways of dealing with this without it completely ruining my life as it is.

We do have full POA but it is a constant battle with my dad.

OP posts:
KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 05/07/2024 16:08

When you stop caring about his opinion, you become better equipped to manage it.

At the moment he gets a bit of a boost at your expense. When you just smile, look at the carer/support worker/GP and say ‘Ah, Dad! You hate being dependent on us, don’t you!’

oh dad, Mrs Williams knows how often she speaks to me.

It’s ok, Dad. You don’t need to say thank you. I do it because Mum would want me to.

etc etc.

At the moment you are stuck in painful, ‘keep the peace, surely he cares’ mode. Let it go. You’ll feel better.

DollyBelle · 05/07/2024 16:07

One thing I learned via caring is that when parents get to certain age, you can’t change them.
If there is one who is being difficult and ungrateful, when you long for a bit of gratitude and recognition, you will be waiting forever. I was pretty lucky but I’ve seen so many friends looking after a parent who is rude to them and takes them for granted.
Any professional who comes into contact with your family will meet people like your dad every day. They will also meet carers like you who are given no thanks.
Keep being there for your mum as much as you can.
It can be a marathon and not a sprint.
I am not sure how things are working but it would be a good idea at some point for you and your sister to have POA and some ability to provide care, cleaning etc from that pot of money that your parents have.
Make sure you have regular time out.

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 15:56

LionWings · 05/07/2024 14:11

I haven't read all the responses, so sorry if I'm repeating this but 100% the carers know how much you do for them. She was probably feeling uncomfortable for you having to put up with an ungrateful parent. It's obvious when a child has a lot of involvement, and I'd say more than the fair share of elderly men are grumpy.

You're doing an awesome job, you sound amazing. Make sure to stand firm for yourself but don't expect things to change.

I hope you and your sister get on well as having that support from someone who understands can be a huge help.

She did look uncomfortable tbh. I hope they know. At the end of the day I’m there for every meeting, drop mum off and greet them every week and am the first port of call if they ever ring us.

My sister is on my side a bit more since I handed over some responsibilities to her but she and dad are very alike.

OP posts:
LionWings · 05/07/2024 14:11

I haven't read all the responses, so sorry if I'm repeating this but 100% the carers know how much you do for them. She was probably feeling uncomfortable for you having to put up with an ungrateful parent. It's obvious when a child has a lot of involvement, and I'd say more than the fair share of elderly men are grumpy.

You're doing an awesome job, you sound amazing. Make sure to stand firm for yourself but don't expect things to change.

I hope you and your sister get on well as having that support from someone who understands can be a huge help.

Brefugee · 05/07/2024 13:55

Thing is, I’m not really doing any of this for my dad as I see what a selfish man he is but for my mum. My mum was/is lovely, she was a lovely mum and was a great daughter to her selfish father. I don’t want to give up on her in her hour of need, that’s where my emotions are so conflicted all the time. If it were the other way around and dad had the dementia mum would have been so very grateful for anything we helped her with. Even now she tells me what wonderful daughters she has and thanks me all the time. It breaks my heart.

for your own piece of mind, i think you need to carry on for your mum. But you need to be very clear to your dad that you are doing zip for him. and just carry on.

radio4everyday · 05/07/2024 13:26

You can only be taken for granted if you allow yourself to be. I'd suggest you tell him how hurtful his comment was, and that if your help isn't significant, you won't be round for a month and you'll see him then.

Theyearwas1973 · 05/07/2024 13:24

Lovetotravel123
Both my parents are only children and whilst my poor mum ran herself ragged looking after my grandad for the 10 years after my Nan passed away (yes, I’m repeating history!), my dad only popped in on his mum probably once a week, even when she was struggling with her bowel cancer journey.

Thing is, I’m not really doing any of this for my dad as I see what a selfish man he is but for my mum. My mum was/is lovely, she was a lovely mum and was a great daughter to her selfish father. I don’t want to give up on her in her hour of need, that’s where my emotions are so conflicted all the time. If it were the other way around and dad had the dementia mum would have been so very grateful for anything we helped her with. Even now she tells me what wonderful daughters she has and thanks me all the time. It breaks my heart.

OP posts:
thesandwich · 05/07/2024 13:15

I read the phrase” invisible mending” which resonated with me- all the stuff we do without making a song and dance and goes unnoticed or unacknowledged because the elderlies cannot face their own decline- and who can blame them in a way?
please please protect yourself and your family.

Lovetotravel123 · 05/07/2024 13:09

You are not being over sensitive. Maybe one way to overcome the guilt would be to consider whether your father would have done do much for his own parents. I am guessing not.

BlueLegume · 05/07/2024 13:04

So many adults on here dealing with difficult elderly parents it’s crazy. I can only imagine how my parents would’ve reacted had I been so defiant, stubborn and downright uncooperative during my adolescence years . They in fact, DM especially regularly threatened to “never speak to you again” for incredibly minor misdemeanours such as “being a teenager”. So scared of that threat or manipulation I always gave in so never got the chance to develop my own identity. She is still manipulating and it is all scare tactics so we get in the car and dash over to yet another none problem. I think at times she is just defiant and wants to see us utterly broken.