MCCarthy Stone- what's your view?

My mum feels incredibly safe, has made friends, knows she has help on tap if required.

I'm sucking up my fear as to what happens when she no longer needs it because of the above.

My friend's father moved to one and loved it but sadly he was only there for a few months before he had to go into a care home. My friend had a job and a half selling it
These expensive posh places want rich people to live in them.... until those rich people get dementia and become problematic. Then they want to get shut of them as quickly as possible.

Trying makes a good point here. Next to Mum's M&S development and just a few mins walk is a housing association block for older people. Everyone avoids it if you can afford M&S. Its known as a dumping ground for the local authority to put people who really should be in a care home due to dementia or other health concerns.

The M&S development near us is 4-5 years old. A number of apartments are marked as rental ONLY. This means that Mum could not have been removed from the apartment due to say M&S wanting to sell it. It was always going to be a rental. Her assessment was robust. She had to show she had 10 years (I joke not!) of rental income because once she was in that was it.

In the end and I suspect what happens to a number of people - they either pass away there, or their needs are no longer met ie dementia and they move into a home. This is what Mum had happen.

I presume M&S can then make it a unit for sale. I didnt hear them ever doing this and the Manager said the rentals were proving very popular. The development did take people with some mild dementia but they couldnt manage say people who were wandering around late at night knocking on people's doors or becoming aggressive. The staff were only allowed in each individual unit with the permission of the owner/renter. I/Mum was asked at the beginning of the tenancy whether they would be allowed to use a key to get in should they have concerns about the resident. Staggeringly some people didnt want this and they told the staff to ring their daughters (always daughters!) if they hadnt seen the resident around.

At the end of the day, the happiness of the person / people buying is paramount, surely? It wouldn’t have suited one set of my grandparents, but for my grandmother on the other side, whose husband died of leukaemia relatively young, it was perfect.

These suggestions of shared ownership or housing association properties as an alternative are all well and good, but if you’ve lived a comfortable life in your own home, in an environment you like, are you really going to want to move to a housing association property in your old age? Even an over 55/65 development?

Perhaps it’s not appropriate to say out loud, but I imagine one of the things you are buying with these types of developments, when they are new, is the likelihood that you’ll have something in common with your neighbours from an ethos perspective. Not guaranteed of course, but it has to significantly lower the chances of ending up with a nightmare neighbour.

@Garlicked I do agree in theory- but the downside is that a lot of the social housing extra care over 55 places are just plain dingy and feel exactly like a cheaper residential care home which many are trying to avoid- that's the flats and the communal areas- any parent that has had a 'nice home' will find most of them a very big downgrade- which is where the specialist providers step in - MS, Pegasus, platinum skys have apartments you yourself would want to live in - especially if built in last 5 years or so- and unless you have got beyond the point of giving a shit about surroundings- they are very very tempting. A lot of people get one of these cheaper ones in their 60s and 70s - often built in the 80s - and they are now looking very drab and dated - and that's one reason along with price they fail to sell- the new breed of 60 and 70 somethings don't want something drab and dated that feels like a nursing home.

Here's a link to the platinum skies one that people can do on shared ownership (I'm nothing to do with them by the way- but have looked for my FIL) I think this is the kind of thing that many with plenty of life in them are thinking. I think part of the key is getting some rules in ref service charges on empty property- it would probably be better to make everyone pay £40 a month into a reserve fund to be used against empty property's - my FIL by the way didn't object to the £500 a month or so service charges, as he said he would have zero maintenance on the exterior and lots of add ons for that money- including warden control.

https://platinumskies.co.uk/wiltshire/salisbury-chapters/?utmsource=google&utmmmedium=cpc&utmcampaign=11691130948&utmmterm=platinum%20skies%20salisbury&utmcontent=113311611053&mhhmatchtype=e&mhkeyword=platinum%20skies%20salisbury&mhhadgroupid=113311611053&mhnetwork=g&gaddsource=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuLGmvvWghgMV1ZtQBh1G6Q13EAAYASAAEgLwvDDBwE

@Confortableorwhat well, it definitely wasn't cheap but instead of spending a lot of her money on a flat and then paying the service charge too, the money was put into as high interest as we could manage and then used to pay the care home fees.

There was nothing extra for her to have to worry about and it meant no concerns about selling on afterwards as I think it was just a month's notice?

The only downside was that they didn't provide dementia care so she had five brilliant years there and a whole new lease of life in her late 80s before having to move to a nursing home but it would have been worse trying to get this to happen from a MS type flat which needed to be sold.

This is exactly right. I know two couples and one single person living in M&S properties and they're as happy as Larry. Yes the service charges are high but the facilities, clubs, talks etc are great if you can afford it. My friend's father moved to one and loved it but sadly he was only there for a few months before he had to go into a care home. My friend had a job and a half selling it.

I think the former is much more important.
If I had felt it was the best thing for my Mum we would have encouraged it, never mind if it would impact any inheritance later

My friend loves living in one near here, amazing facilities, apartments are beautiful but it was nearly the same price as my house which is in a more desirable location and his service fees are horrific but he has no children so no interest in passing on money when he dies, the apartment is willed to his church.

Sheltered or assisted (extra care) housing. Most housing associations have them, and there are several providers that I don't think are HAs but are a similar type of public-interest provider.

As far as I can tell, it's a bit of a slog to find them but you can start by googling extra care housing [your area], for instance.

There is less pressure on HAs for retirement and assisted properties, it's easier to find a rental and some are usually available to buy as well.

Info on classifications: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/care-services-equipment-and-care-homes/moving-to-a-new-home-housing-options

Honestly what is the alternative? Parent was renting so service charge stopped when rental came to its end. Yes, the service charge was expensive but this place had 24/7 staff. You needed to be 70 plus. I think a lot of people dont think what they are buying. You buy a NEW apartment, try and sell a few years later and wonder why it hasnt kept its value. The market is very small for your resale. We brought a new build house ourselves a number of years ago. We paid more for that 'new build' - its a commercial decision. We knew if we tried to sell in 1-2 years then of course we wouldnt get our money back let alone have a price increase.

Of course the old person could stay in their old house, become more and more isolated and often refuse to go out as their confidence drops. They think no one understands how they feel. Put undue pressure on their own kids

Mum felt like this and at the beginning she wouldnt come out of her apartment but slowly she realised that outside her front door were people of her age and even older who understood exactly what she felt. They used to have a good old moan about things but she was happy. She still missed her old place and blocked out the downsides but hey ho.

Paying a service charge until sold is the same on any property - the building still needs staffing and looking after even if the place is vacant.

Applies to any property with a service charge.

Avoid

My DDad bought one in his final years. It was great for a time but service fees were £12/year. He died 3 yrs ago and we can't re-sell as very niche market. But we still need to pay service charge on an empty flat, over £30k so far.
Renting would be a good idea as the concept is nice. But reselling is a nightmare

you really be bothered to organise a refurbishment including new kitchen and bathrooms? But why would you need to? I said “used”, not “semi-derelict”

the thing is that by the time someone is ready for one of these properties, there is no cheap solution. If someone needs care / support then that will cost money in some way. Amusing that all the adverts show fit, active people in their 60s. I know, it’s just selling. Like the fit youngsters on stairlifts and mobility scooters.

That sounds perfect, but I imagine no less costly than the apartments that are being dismissed as a terrible financial idea.

In this situation my distant elderly relative chose residential care. Not your stereotypical care home and I doubt they exist in many areas, but she got a spacious en suite bed/sitting room with a kitchenette, all meals provided (and very gourmet meals too!), a wide range of activities of an intellectually stimulating nature. Some residents had their car there and took themselves off out for the day. It meant she had nothing to worry about in terms of shopping, meals, laundry as all of that was taken care of. The home took her to any medical appointments and made sure she was accompanied.

Trouble is, most people wouldn't be able to do this as no one without savings would get it funded by SS.

MiL bought a new Churchill flat last year, it's nice but the charges are very steep for what they cover. As previous posters have said, good for the elderly person, not so good for the family member who has to try and sell it later ( and not just because of the loss in value). I think it's a racket, and it's a pity there aren't more alternatives.

@LindorDoubleChoc I would be more tempted I think to simply buy a 25% share in one of the shared ownership over 55 developments (platinum skies do nice ones) get the security and community and effectively 'write it off' - bank any other differences if you've sold a previous place and pay your £1200 a month rent including service charge. - especially if they bring in changes to how service charges work and what's allowed.

My Aunt and Uncle had an elderly relative who bought one. She passed away about 2 years ago and they still haven't been able to sell it.

Elderly people are vulnerable & needy, the homes they live in are soooo valuable, property developers salivate and rub their hands at the thought of all that easy money just waiting to be tapped.

Oh I agree and I will probably do it if DC ever leave home but I don't expect to release much capital from it.

My step mother has finally agreed a sale on her mother's M&S flat in a leafy Surrey town. The final sale price is not much more than £100,000 and it has been on the market for over 4 years!

I would avoid, avoid, avoid. It makes me mad that there's not much alternative for older people who need a sense of safety, security and community but are not yet ready for a care home.

@Tracker1234 @lollydu this is my view too- ideally buy one a few years old but cheaper. Accept that it's bit of a right off - but will enhance life for many-

Secondhand doesn't always mean old. Not wanting to be depressing but some people won't be living in these flats for very long, maybe moving on to a care home or dying. Do they really need refurbishment if they are 2 or 3 years old?

The second hand M and S flats are definitely worth looking at. They aren’t old and sadly people dont stay for years and years generally. So perhaps a 4 year old place is worth a look. For Mum it was the social side. She was withdrawing more and more in her old house and it was getting more and more run down.