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Elderly parents

How long can someone self neglect before capacity is taken away?

37 replies

Healingfrommothernarc · 08/04/2024 23:19

I am curious because my mum is very unwell in hospital. Early 80s.I think she has narcissistic personality disorder. She has been diagnosed with cancer and has bad infection. She was supposed to be assessed by psychiatric but refused. She had not showered or bathed for 3 weeks before going in, been in a week and still refusing to shower or be cleaned. She has been refusing to eat too.

She also was refusing to go to hospital after not eating for weeks and being on deaths door. The only reason she agreed to go into hospital is because the paramedic said they would have todo safeguarding referral to social services if she said no. My mum hates social services.

How long can this continue before capacity is taken away? I think she is showing signs of dementia too.

I am wondering the processes etc.

I am worried if she is discharged, with having capacity she will be refusing to take food medicine or look after house or dogs. Also. She is very very unwell.

I really want to help and support her but she tells family to go away and is the same when we visit hospital. She tells hospital staff go leave her alone and to go away. I love her but I can't cope with the stress of her saying hurtful things onto of all this and worrying she isn't going to be with us much longer, or what it will be like when she comes out as she needs 24 hour care.

How long can it go on for?

I am just worried and think if she comes out of hospital I will break with stress of it all.

Dr has put in rapid response,but heard nothing and hospital isn't forthcoming with information as my mum says she doesn't want family to know. We get told some stuff, but surely we should have had a family consultation by now?

This is 2nd stint in hospital.

She has a Loving, caring family. I put up with a lot of sharp tongued behaviour but tolerate it as I want her to be comfortable. As do other family members.

I just don't know how as a family we will cope if she's deemed to have capacity to continue like this.

I'm having daily panic attacks.

Just looking for advice really. Thank you for reading, I get a lot from reading people stories and how others deal.

It's hardest thing I've had to deal with in my life at the moment.

Thanks again.

OP posts:
Louisetopaz21 · 09/04/2024 08:44

PermanentTemporary · 08/04/2024 23:27

I'm so sorry you are facing this.

People are assumed to have mental capacity for decisions unless they have a disorder of mind or brain, which might mean their mental capacity for a decision will be assessed.

You could inform the hospital team about your views, even if they can't tell you much - I would ring the ward. See if you can talk to an occupational therapist.

Not true, the starting point of the mental capacity assessment is the functional test and if they are determined to lack mental capacity then the diagnostic test is looked at but no formal diagnosis is required just a belief that there is something. If there are concerns about the person's decision making or behaviours then a MCA should be completed.

Hadalifeonce · 09/04/2024 08:42

My mother's GP told us that just because we don't like or agree with her decisions, it doesn't mean she doesn't have capacity to make those decisions.
When the doctor told us she was going to be discharged from hospital, at this point she could barely move, we told him we didn't think she could go home, he said she had mental capacity, wasn't ill, and had said she wants to go home.
She didn't wash, she cancelled the cleaner, she didn't eat very much, but there was nothing we could do as she had capacity.

Octavia64 · 09/04/2024 08:37

It can go for a long time.

In general people are presumed to have capacity.

The legal bar is very low - they basically need to understand the consequences of their decisions.

Lack of showering and self care doesn't come anywhere near it.

TiptoeTess · 09/04/2024 08:34

Tell the hospital that you want it put on her written notes that as her daughter you are of the opinion that this would be an unsafe discharge.

If she still loves the dogs, perhaps someone can take and care for them and then she has to “earn” them back by showing that she can take care of herself and her house first?

Blackcats7 · 09/04/2024 08:29

Can you get the poor dogs away at least? The RSPCA and dog warden may be helpful. It’s bad enough that your mum neglects herself but the animals have no choice.
I would also put in writing to the hospital that your mother is at serious risk of harm on discharge because of her behaviour and you doubt her mental capacity, giving details as to why. Make clear that it is essential that her capacity is assessed and a plan made for her before she is discharged and that as her next of kin you need to be involved in this as your mother may not be accurate or truthful with any information she provides.

StarDolphins · 09/04/2024 08:06

Healingfrommothernarc · 08/04/2024 23:38

I'm so sorry to hear... its so hard isn't it. I'm glad of this forum, friends don't understand how challenging it is when parenr so stubborn. My dad passed of cancer, but was accepting of help and support. Even though it was awful, he made things easy for the family even though in so much pain and suffering. My mum fights everything and everyone. I love her and want best for her ut makes it impossible.

How is she if your mum won't bathe at all? Has it affected her skin etc?

It truly is awful & very stressful.

Her skin isn’t good, she picks at her skin too & is convinced it’s mites rather than the fact she won’t shower. I wipe her down with a flannel & change her once a week but she won’t let carers do any of it. I had to shave all her hair off because it was matted.

She either refuses hospital or discharged herself saying her dog needs her & she needs to be home. All the services have her down as ‘won’t engage/refuses help’.

It’s so difficult, I really feel for you.

AnnaMagnani · 08/04/2024 23:41

In healthcare you do see a fair number of people that don't wash.

Bit smelly, bit crusty, usually a bit yeasty. But if they don't have pressure area problems, their skin is fine apart from that.

Healingfrommothernarc · 08/04/2024 23:38

StarDolphins · 08/04/2024 23:33

My mum hasn’t showered in over 2 years &. Is extremely difficult to deal with, I sympathise op. She had 2 strokes & discharged herself & got a taxi home after refusing physio!

I would just keep telling anyone & everyone at the hospital how you feel.

I'm so sorry to hear... its so hard isn't it. I'm glad of this forum, friends don't understand how challenging it is when parenr so stubborn. My dad passed of cancer, but was accepting of help and support. Even though it was awful, he made things easy for the family even though in so much pain and suffering. My mum fights everything and everyone. I love her and want best for her ut makes it impossible.

How is she if your mum won't bathe at all? Has it affected her skin etc?

OP posts:
Healingfrommothernarc · 08/04/2024 23:35

Thanks all, my mum doesn't even know who phone contracts, house insurance, dog insurance,or bills etc are with because my dad looked after them before he passed 3 years a go. That fell to my sister and brother who do things on behalf of my mum. @BananaSpanner @PermanentTemporary would this make a difference?

OP posts:
StarDolphins · 08/04/2024 23:33

My mum hasn’t showered in over 2 years &. Is extremely difficult to deal with, I sympathise op. She had 2 strokes & discharged herself & got a taxi home after refusing physio!

I would just keep telling anyone & everyone at the hospital how you feel.

PermanentTemporary · 08/04/2024 23:27

I'm so sorry you are facing this.

People are assumed to have mental capacity for decisions unless they have a disorder of mind or brain, which might mean their mental capacity for a decision will be assessed.

You could inform the hospital team about your views, even if they can't tell you much - I would ring the ward. See if you can talk to an occupational therapist.

BananaSpanner · 08/04/2024 23:27

It’s incredibly stressful. My mums GP did a capacity test quite easily but my mum had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s for a couple of years at that point.

To determine capacity, I think they try and understand their functioning and decision making eg around finances…do they understand how much money they have access to, where it is, how to pay for things etc

My mum also stopped eating and it is very hard to persuade someone who really just doesn’t want to eat.

Have a chat with the GP re capacity.