Is my Mum likely to get CHC ?

@betterlifeahead
Please see my earlier post, Beacon are very helpful. Your Dad sounds very similar to my Mum. Best wishes

I agree that most applications for CHC are unsuccesful and reason is that the care needs can be met by trained social carers and do not HAVE to be done by a nurse, they do make it very hard and people with really complex needs still arent often eligible.m She will likely be eligible for FNC.
There is a big piece of incorrect info on here about the house and paying for care homes. If your dad still lives in the house then the value of the house is disregarded, there is no charge put on it. The house only comes into play if he dies or himself moves into a home.
Your mum would be assessed on her savings and income so if she has more than £23250 in assets/savings (not including the house) then she has to fund her own care. If she is under this her local authority will contribute on a sliding scale till she gets to £14250 (if you want a more expensive care home than the council will pay for you or a charity etc have to pay a top up, she cannot use her own funds).
Assuming they are joint tennants I would suggest speaking to a solicitor to get changed to tennants in common (so both own 50% of the house). This would mean if your mum went into a care home and then your dad died he could leave his 50% of the house to whoever he wants, if they stay joint tennants all of it could go to pay for her fees. It is perfectly legal and not deprivation of assets.

She will be moved into a care home under those circumstances.

It sounds like your dad is at crisis point. Your mums conditions are worsening.

My mil had heart failure, as completely blind, had mobility issues before she went blind, kidney and lung issues aswell as diabetes and didn't qualify for chc.

If you're looking at chc funding, you really should be looking at care homes.

We are having our CHC assessment for my father in a few weeks. If anyone can give advice on how best to present a case? Are there things you need to say to get the correct ticks.

He had a stroke and is totally paralysed down his let side. Doubly incontinent. Is manic and random in his mood and will become extremely aggressive, punching etc. he once got a table with his working arm and flipped it onto his bed. It seems to be very erratic and unpredictable behaviour that the CHC looks for. Is this the part of my dads needs we need to explain in depth?

Any help from those who have been successful would be so appreciated.

We're recently asked at a nursing home we were considering for my Aunt who has had a stroke. The nursing home specializes in end of life care and said that things have toughened up a lot recently. They have most success with CHC with those who are in their final months or final stages of MND or Parkinson's or who are paralyzed by strokes, totally dependent on nursing care for all personal care, and then they, the home have to really emphasize the total helplessness of their patients to succeed. Our Aunt isn't there yet. It sounds like your DM is getting closer. It might be helpful to apply now and then if you are turned down you will understand the criteria better and be better placed to reapply. Age UK has a helpful guide to applying on their website (Factsheet FS20)

My mother had a neurological condition similar to MND and we got CHC funding pretty easily (This was pre-Covid though so things may have changed). The nurse who came out to assess was really helpful but I was surprised we got it as I had read lots of horror stories.

I think I had seen the checklist beforehand and knew that we needed a certain score to qualify so I’d try and find that if I were you so that you know what areas they are looking at.

Good luck.

And in the case above I would agree that was a strong case for CHC but only with the very challenging and unpredictable behaviour and will high grade pressure sores that weren’t healing. If both those things had stabilised then I see why it wasn’t successful but it doesn’t seem right. The whole system is so ridiculous and this is a big part of why I left after 18 yrs in the profession doing these assessments and arguing with NHS about them.

I would say she’d be likely to ‘pass’ the intial screening checklist and qualify for full assessment.
and that is worth doing
based on what you’ve said I would guess based on my experience that she would be very unlikely to qualify for full CHC, sorry.

Hi my Mum had dementia, but in 2020 she had a massive stroke which left her completely paralysed on one side. My Dad wanted her home, she had 4 visits a day from carers. However within a week she developed multiple pressure sores (sent home with incorrect mattress). This resulted in her being severe pain when she was being moved and attacking the carers with her good hand. After 6 weeks she was moved to a home where she was able to receive round the clock care. I unsuccessfully applied for CHC, I had a lot of guidance from Beacon (please see photo attached), they said my Mum's case was borderline. It was hard work to put the case together, but ultimately I believe we lost as by the time we had the final hearing Mum's pressure sores were healing and consequently she wasn't attacking the staff any more. Good luck its definitely worth speaking to Beacon

Nurse funded care only applies to people in nursing homes and not own home.

As a health professional I am very cynical about CHC. It is very open to interpretation. People do get it though but very dependent on how sharp the relatives elbows are.

I know.

I’m a supervisor for a care company.
in our area CHC is normally only given to people within the last 12 weeks of life. I have know people to get CHC for complex issues but it’s quite rare.
If you have a good professional on your side sometimes they can pull it off, we had an OT do it with one of our ladies before Xmas and it did get awarded. Her issues are very similar to your mums. That was the first one in a long time tho!

There is a huge misunderstanding about what fully funded continuing healthcare is.

Its awarded when the nature and intensity of care required is so complex and unpredictable that it can't reasonably be funded by the two other normal sources of funding for care.

Those two normal sources of funding are social care funding and nursing care funding. Most people who apply for fully funded continuing healthcare will probably end up being eligible for the funded nursing contribution which is the NHS's contribution to any care needs that need to be managed by nurses.

Fully funded continuing healthcare is for the exceptional cases where the care needs themselves are so complex and so intense and so unpredictable that they can require usually daily input from a health professional like a nurse, which indicates a need so great that it can't lawfully be funded even in part by adult social care.

It's difficult to get because most people's care needs can be met by either adult socail care or adult social care + the funded nursing contribution.

Fast track continuing healthcare is something different again and can be given to anyone who is felt to be terminally ill and in the rapidly deteriorating phase of that terminal illness (usually life expectancy would be less than 12 weeks).

My MIL had the worst type of stroke. Was left doubly incontinent, unable to speak or swallow, very little movement so hoist required. We were unsuccessful in claiming. From what I've read on here since then it is about whether there is actual nursing care required as opposed to trained carers.

I hope you have a different result, it is so difficult, you have my every sympathy.

Yes she may get fnc, are they claiming attendance and carers allowance,

Your Mum would likely have nursing needs, so would be eligible for FNC contribution of around £200 a week towards a nursing home. The rest would be payable, a charge could be put against the house so wouldn't need to be paid immediately.

If someone has no funds the state pays, if they have funds they contribute until their assets are diminished to a set amount, depending where in the UK they live.

I went to the NHS England appeal stage with my mum last year and she didn't qualify despite a wide range of medical needs and exceptionally severe dementia.

We've just been through the assessment with my mother in law, who has also been turned down. She is completely bed bound and unable to stand, so has to be moved with a full hoist. She is doubly incontinent, has severe dementia, is very aggressive, has extremely delicate skin and frequent bedsores, won't speak, and has lost 20kg since October because she refuses to eat. CHC funding seems to be a bit of a waste of time as no-one ever seems to get it .

I successfully applied - they awarded 30 minutes for lunch, 30 mins dinner, then overnight sleep in from 10pm - 8am including morning shower and breakfast.

Still wasn't enough so she went into a nursing home 5 months later fully funded

If there is no money then after a care needs assessment and a financial assessment the council would pay for either carers at home or a carehome. The dn need to investigate why her catheter keeps blocking, if they are already doing weekly washout, is it not hanging properly, is the tubing getting kinked, is she a bit dehydrated. Chc seems to be awarded for complex or end of life care now. Could you ask for another care needs assessment, if dad is struggling it might be better to have the 4 visits a day again. Does anyone have health poa for mum.

My Mum was awarded CHC after a large stroke. It funded the 4 care visits a day. Worth a try?

Yes I used to Nurse in a hospice and many end of life patients wouldn't even qualify. Sometimes the patients with motor neurone disease who had a high choke risk and needed suctioning and a machine to help strengthen their lungs would qualify.

@TheShellBeach nurses still do this amongst a million other complex things.

But all what you described can also be provided by trained carers.