Overheard my mother talking to my sister

Oh, that must have been upsetting! Maybe, as some others have suggested, she’s behaving like this because she’s resisting the idea that she might need others’ help… You mentioned that she is very independent…

And stay elsewhere when you visit. At least that's what I would do.

She could be thinking 'I'm 93 and get support weekly from my other daughter. I don't want her to screw up her life and that of her children on my account when I can tell that she doesn't particularly want to come back, but feels obliged to. Chances are no sooner than they're here, they won't need to be anymore, anyhow and she'll have put everybody through all of that for the sake of a few months. I don't want that for her or my grandchildren'.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but my mum often moans to others like this about help I've given her.

It's something I haven't quite worked out, but I think it might have something to do with her general lack of autonomy in life. She was very much in the passenger seat with Dad making all the decisions and e.g. talking about "his" mortgage when they both paid into it.

A lifetime of this gave her a sort of passive aggressive approach whereby she likes to moan about "interference" and yet will not, or cannot, make her own mind up about anything that needs doing.

It's a bit confusing because at times she is extremely grateful.

Now you know how DM really feels. I'm sorry you had to find out by over hearing. I'd leave her to Crack on alone. Sister can help from now.

I think you should consider this as a possibility before making any decisions . And speak to your mother.

Cancel the move and stay where you are. Do not be as available to your mother or sister going forward.

You know your mother better than any of us, but I wonder if your pragmatic sister has said it isn’t fair to uproot you, dh and the children to move all the way back to ‘care’ for DM when she a) doesn’t need it and b) won’t be around for too much longer anyway. Maybe your mother is reassuring your sister that she certainly isn’t putting pressure on you and is perfectly fine on her own.

It may sound like DM doesn’t want or need you to come - and perhaps she doesn’t think it’s worth the stress and cost. She may know how happy you are, and doesn’t want to be responsible if it all goes wrong.

Older people become less polite and tolerant as they get older - she probably can’t be bothered at this point to say it more kindly. People also get used to living alone, it sounds like she has two dc that live overseas and she has managed to this point. It might feel insulting that you are now rushing back. As she feels she doesn’t ‘need’ anyone…. Just a thought..

I do think it’s based on a need to feel she is independent and is not reliant on you. As you feel you are close to your DM I personally wouldn’t read too much into the overhead phone conversation.
My DMIL was a bit like this, particularly as she became older and more in need of support, she hated needing others to help her and would often imply that her DD was just making a fuss and being bossy about helping her. I felt so sorry for my SIL who was doing so much for her, they used to clash badly. In reality DMIL adored her DD and would chat about her so proudly in other ways. I did my best to support as well and was also sometimes on the receiving end of comments.
I think you need to do what is best for you and your own peace of mind, but do try to forget the snippet of overhead conversation - it was just a display of a need to feel more independent than she is really feeling logically.

Old people can be difficult. No point trying to explain it. They just are. It’s hard getting old!

Don't move op. Let me guess, you have never gotten any gratitude for all the help you've given your mother?

I noticed it is very common for old people to pretend they are not getting any help from anyone because admitting it would make them feel helpless and vulnerable. It's sad.

I think I'd be up front with your dm.

I'd scrap the plans and actually tell her why, I'd say that you'd overheard her conversation with your ds and as a result you're changing your plans and not moving etc, I'd also mention that you'd have preferred her to speak to you directly rather than to have overheard

I'd wouldn't bother moving. Your mother and sister can deal with any issues, which might arise in future,

I'd imagine that there's been conversations where your sister has been negative about your proposed move to your mum. Possibly because she doesn't want it to be seen as you doing a better thing for your mum than she is. Possibly because shes concerned about the impact on you. Possibly even due to worry about losing inheritance. She's your sister, you know whats most in character there.
As a people pleaser your mum may well be saying 'well I didn't ask her to, I don't want her to' to get your sister off her back. She may also be playing how much she likes having you there if thsts what your sister prefers to hear. My point, don't take what she says to your sister as an accurate reflection of her views. Ask her straight out if she wants you to move. No need to mention what you overheard.

By all means tell your mother what you overheard, but she will deny it. Or that she meant it that way. She's just worried about the GC's schooling... etc.

Let's be blunt - she's 93. She's not going to be around for more than about seven years, probably. Is that worth uprooting your family's life for, when she doesn't seem to want you there?

Have you seen her will? Could it be she is intending to leave your Dsis more than you, because she is single?

If you move back to care for her that doesn't look good.

OP I haven’t had time to read the whole thread and apologies if I’ve misunderstood . However it would be normal to have 2 executors not just one - so I would be wondering why you and your sister are not joint executors. Sorry that’s a bit off piste - but it doesn’t make sense .

Thank Goodness you heard the conversation, now you don't need to disrupt your family / schools etc.

@Goinggreymammy

In my experience older people seem to like kicking decisions down the road - goodness knows why!

Because they won’t have to make the decision at all, ultimately. My Mum readily confesses it’s one of the ways she deals with ageing and the knowledge she doesn’t have long left: she can leave the fallout for other people to deal with.

I am very fortunate to have my dad who, to me, is an example. He has tidied everything up, discussed everything with his heirs well ahead of time, covered every permutation of contingencies for his and my mum’s old age - and all in good time so he now enjoys his remaining days pursuing his passions (mostly, his dgc and his intellectual interests). He’s faced mortality head on, and it’s extremely comforting for everyone affected.

Ah so actually what you mean is that you get stuck with the donkey work such as care and the grief of POA while your mum slags you off to your sister who keeps her at arms length and gets to do one not-too-onerous executor duty and still be the golden one.
so many people on this board in thr same position, makes me very glad to be an only. While all the caring (a lot) falls on me at least I don't have to deal with that.

I agree with posters who say do not tell your DM you overheard her. She will either deny, claim total blank, or get angry and divert attention to your "eavesdropping". This will derail any possibility of a discussion.

My dad was very difficult.... discussing anything with him necessitated a casual but well planned script. Faux breezy. He has dementia now and is in care so i just kind of agree with everything. So I'm talking from years of experience.

It sounds like your DM isn't keen on the move. I would tell her you've been thinking about what she said about the schools and maybe it's best not to move right now. Ask what she thinks.... as if puzzling out any other positives or negatives and she may give some clue. Reassure her that you will be available to visit and support her, like you have been doing - use examples from this trip. And say that you can always consider a move "later on". In my experience older people seem to like kicking decisions down the road - goodness knows why!

What do you think?

I think in your position I would
a) be really bloody pissed off and be unable to stop giving her a piece of my mind
b) be going home
c) be scrapping any move plans
d) telling her why you are doing B&C as part of the piece of my mind in part A
e) mentioning all of the above next time she wants your help.

Unless there is some cognitive decline at play here there is no excuse for being rude about the person you want to help you.

I think you definitely need to challenge ber first asking her what she said and why.

Yep. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Your mum doesn't want help.

It's sad. But it is what it is.

She's 93. Cut her some slack. She's compos mentis but less independent and knows she won't be around for very much longer (probably) even if she doesn't say that. Who knows why she was being dismissive but maybe she was spinning a line for your sister's benefit.

I think you're in danger of falling out over nothing, which isn't going to make you or her happy.