Overheard my mother talking to my sister

Some people are just two-faced and shallow, even mothers!

It’s honestly not worth fathoming why or the injustice of it because it’s part of their makeup.

You sound like an extremely loyal daughter, but sadly your DM isn’t loyal to you.

It’s a very horrible realisation for you.

Also two is company and three can be a crowd. Your mother is probably playing you off against your sister.

Whatever you do don’t move.

Ask your mum outright if she likes the situation and visits as thry are if it'd be better for her if you were closer. Tell her you want her to be honest with you because you're going to turn your life upside down in moving back home so you're doing it to help her more if or when she needs help. You won't be living in her pocket.

I think your mum isn't being honest with eother of you.

@Thegreengreengrassofhomes
Unfortunately as the saying goes the more you do the less your thought of, and the less you do the more your thought of, always rings true for me. As you say ur sis does little but gets praised, you do it all but get nothing.

It isn't unusual to have just 1- it was recommended to us by the solicitor with the 2nd as the back up.

I would have shouted out then at there “I can hear you talking about me”. The fact you’ve overheard needs to be out in the open ASAP, don’t sit on it and mull it over, it could ruin your relationship.

Pride before a fall

My guess OP, reading this, is that she is stubborn, doesn’t want to feel reliant or a burden on you, and she doesn’t want the guilt of the grandchildren having their lives uprooted. In your shoes, I would outsource the help. Have a housekeeper call in with her every second day or so, until she requires more care?

It can be scary the idea of losing your independence and you can vent your frustrations to people hoping it stays with just them which is possibly what she was doing.

She knows she's going to need more help as she ages but it's hard to put that on people, especially when the idea reminds you of your own mortality.

I am slightly alarmed that your sister is sole executor. DB and I were joint executors of DM's will, together with DM's solicitor.

And why not have joint and several POA? Although it would involve discussion with your sister if it/they had to be activated. Is it POA for both finances and health - these are two separate things?

Sounds like you are to be lumbered with the day to day stuff, should POA be activated, while sister gets to oversee the estate after DM dies.

I got the sense that your mum was against the idea from the get go and you knew it. She might not have articulated herself well, but you knew she wasn't on board, and you know she's not the type to come out and say it to your face even when asked directly. Yet you ploughed on with the idea anyway.

Your heart was in the right place for sure, but I can see how she could have felt railroaded. The good thing is you now know where you stand, and in time to back off the idea without any fuss.

If my little baby goes off and lives a wonderful life abroad I would NOT want him coming home to look after me, my grandparents wouldn't want this nor my parents. Could it just be this? Either way definitely scrap your plans!

I am sorry you have endured this emotional [low] blow OP, and are now having to navigate it. Families can be so strange, so many secrets and lies.

Do you think your DM would be upset and horrified if she knew you had overheard her? Would she be upset because your feelings were hurt, or because her two-facedness had been exposed? Or would she go into denial mode?

My paternal DGM was a prolific liar and misrepresenter of the facts. (I was going to say 'terrible liar' but she was actually very good at it, very convincing!) I used to get upset when I was younger because, during our visits, she always waxed lyrical about what a wonderful DS my uncle was, and heavily implied that my DF was rubbish.

Her distortions and manipulations were gradually revealed as she aged, because the family came together more often to take care of her needs. Evidently she had been saying the same things to my uncle about his brother, for decades.

More disturbingly, one day she shared with DM and I her devastation at having miscarried a baby girl. On a later date when I again expressed my sympathy for her loss, she flat out denied it had ever happened or that she had ever said it.

None of us really understand why she felt compelled to behave this way, but I am sure it had it's roots in an emotionally dysfunctional childhood.

Havent RTFT but I've read all your updates. This sounds like a lot of the very elderly people I've come across. My dad was fantastic, kind, generous, would do anything for me and I couldn't wish for a better dad, until his 80s when he could be quite upsetting to be around. I became quite reactive to his criticism, sometimes with good reason, sometimes without good reason, just because of the damage to our relationship caused by the regular upset. He died during covid and I'd give anything to go back and be nicer to him the last few years. He must have been so scared and lonely, and his brain didn't have the same filter it had when he was younger. I had no such excuse. If your mum is 93 its likely you'll not get a fully rational response, and being blunt, you don't have time to piss around on petty arguments you might not be able to resolve. It sounds like you've been close in the past, treat that as the evidence of her love for you, no matter "how well she's doing for 93" her brain is 93 and she won't be as rational as someone younger. She may be saying what she thinks people want to hear, or lashing out through fear of what needs to come next. Either way, don't have regrets, the time you've got now might be hard but it's a bonus many people aren't lucky enough to have.

When you mentioned moving back did you ask her if she would want the help or need extra support at home?
If she wasn't part of the decision making maybe she went along with it bit wasn't happy with it.

It could be and age thing also. My DG was awful for this. She would act so independent despite health issues snd ignored Drs warnings to allow family to visit / stay and not to travel alone.
DM suggested she movea in with us and she said responded she wouldnt do that and she will leave when she dies.

She was very stubborn and liked her independence deapute struggling at times.
I think as much as we want to jump in and save them. Without their express wishes and say so you can't make such a big change.

I am having those talks with DM & DF as they live far away. Health issues etc moving closer and they are not keen. History repeating itself. Not much we can do.

Well… in the real world you may be right, but in the alternate universe of where mothers like @Thegreengreengrassofhomes and mine dwell… they will just bare faced lie to your face and tell you that they said no such thing, then get emotional and make it all about them and how mean you are.

@Thegreengreengrassofhomes do you think it’s worth raising with her? Just get your visit concluded and leave to go back to your home and life

I asked my mother why she’d excluded me from all communication about her house move (hundreds of miles) the replay was that we were never that close. Our relationship ended there and then pretty much.

if you think this will blow up, you would be totally justified not to pull her up on this. I wouldn’t recommend or wish that level of hurt on anyone. Just get yourself home, you can lick your wounds in your own home and with your family

(((huge hug)))

OP it doesn't really matter why she said it. Either she means it or she's saying it because that's what your sister wants to hear - neither are a good look on her part.

The absolute facts are that she did say it and you heard. If she's prepared to let those words out of her mouth she has to be prepared to be challenged. You could have found out anyway, depending on who else she says it to.

I'd be straight with her. Don't try skirting round it or asking indirectly; she can (deliberately or otherwise) misunderstand. Better to get it out in the open than spend the next few years wondering. You know you heard it so stick to your guns if she tries to say she didn't. Or if she says that you must have misheard - no you didn't. And if she point blank denies it I'd take that as a cue to tell her that you know what you heard and you won't be troubling her again, if she won't even take responsibility.

Yeah, my mum is a bit like this between me and my brother. She tells us different things to avoid being held accountable. It's not malicious in any way it's just how she operates so she is always seen as the good guy.

It would be hard, but I would attempt to open up some genuine communication between you and your sister now you are adults. I bet you find that both of you have been told some untruths along the way.

If I am honest your mother is old and you have the chance now to choose your truth. You do not want to move home. Your family don't want to move home. Your mother doesn't want you to move home.

Choose the truth that allows you to live the rest of your life at peace with your mum as a generous person who wanted the best for you and your family. There is a very good chance that that is her truth too.

Another who hasn’t read the thread completely.
I do agree that moving children to a new school so close to moving on to another would be a concern.
Are you sure that both your mother and sister are convinced you plan on renting/buying and not just stay with your mum?
Maybe the next time you visit with your children, you should stay in a local hotel and not just take your mums word for her being ok with you staying with her. At 90+ it’s probably exhausting for her.

I have read OP's posts but have not read the whole thread, so forgive me if I am repeating what others have said.

There seems to be an assumption that if the OP's DM is nice then she wants her to come home and live nearby, and if she thinks that is a bad idea then she is not very nice and OP should reduce contact.

Is there an alternative scenario where the OP's DM loves her and her family dearly, but thinks they are actually better off where they are? They themselves admit they would be happier there. Maybe she senses this and supports them in staying where they are happy rather than moving back to the UK to be close to a 90+ year old woman, who in all fairness doesn't have more than another 20 or 30 years left. Is it wrong if she wants them to stay where their kids are happy rather than uprouting them for her "benefit"?

Maybe she is just communicating this badly. She wouldn't be the first parent to try and encourage her kids to do something for themselves by pushing them out of the nest (or preventing them returning to her nest when they have a perfectly nice nest of their own).

@Thegreengreengrassofhomes, think positive, stay where you are with your family, don't return home, but do still call often and make short visits when you can.

Good luck!

This really resonated with me, I think some of My DMILs behaviour was based on poor self-esteem issues. She certainly didn’t like receiving gifts, whenever we sent flowers for things like Mother’s Day I would end up thinking she thought I was a spendthrift and showing off by sending flowers!. She didn’t comprehend that it gave us pleasure to do what we felt were nice things for her because we loved and valued her. She did have poor self-esteem and didn’t like to be the centre of attention and wasn’t very good at receiving compliments.

Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this too, was a gift.

Mary Oliver

She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.”

To me this sounds as though she might like the idea but doesn't want to be blamed for you moving over to support her. She is maybe trying to let your older Sister know that what she offers as far as support, is enough, because there is some guilt and possibly jealousy, on your Sisters part, that she can't get over as often as you do ?

My mother has some weird deep self esteem issues and a massive inferiority complex. It means she can never admit out loud that somebody is doing something lovely for her that clearly shows how much they think of her. Whenever she tells a story she does whatever the opposite of showing off is, massively downplays the effort somebody has gone to, implies she didn’t want it in the first place and tells it like she is somehow the victim of their generosity. I find it incredibly hurtful as I’m sure most of her friends must think I’m a controlling, impatient arse (I’ve heard my actions described and it is usually a far cry from the truth).
is there any chance your mum is a bit overwhelmed by the kindness and tries to brush it off as a negative? Or perhaps has wanted this for years but didn’t want to admit it so is downplaying it to your sister?
long shot I know 😆