Care annuity

@Puddingpieplum I am not looking for an argument either. My advice was to speak to Beacon. They are incredibly helpful.

OP's Mum may not be eligible at this point but it does no harm to understand the CHC Framework so if her Mum sadly reaches a point where she becomes eligible they then can apply.

@BetterCare I'm not after a quarrel, but I work in CHC. OP's mum is not even in a nursing home, she is in a residential home, therefor she doesn't require input above district nursing. If she isn't even eligible for FNC then she's definitely not eligible for CHC. It would be ridiculous for OP to base the decision on financial planning on a loose idea of maybe getting CHC funding one day.

I understand that people want to raise awareness of CHC, but that needs to be measured against giving information about how complex a patient needs to be for eligibility.

It's not that CHC make it "so difficult" to get funding, we as practitioners have no agenda to reject people. There is a tool that is applied, and evidence has to be available to evidence people's needs, if it isn't there then the funding simply can't be agreed, it goes through several levels of scrutiny.

@Puddingpieplum I am not just shouting about CHC. I have been through it and done a huge amount of research regarding the CHC Framework. We went from 4 visits a day to 24/7 care because we fought hard and understood what my Mum's rights were. It was horrible and incredibly stressful but we were determined not to be put off.

Whilst only a small % get it, it does not mean that a much larger percentage of people are not entitled to it. It is simply that CHC makes it so difficult to get the funding. Many people don't even try in the first place or give up because they are trying to go through the process at the most stressful time.

Beacon is a really good source for people to use because they are funded by the NHS and were set up to help people understand whether it is worth going through the CHC process.

I agree with PPs that they're only worth it if your loved one is in good physical health.
These companies do want to make money & want their clients to die asap so they can make a profit.
It is a gamble.

My IFA recommended one for my mother when she had dementia & went into a care home.
We had very good reason to be concerned that her liquid assets would run out especially if she ever needed nursing care as well dementia care.
We knew we would break even after 5 years. She didn't quite reach this but for me, it was worth every penny knowing that her money wasn't going to run out.

We considered it for Mum but it would not have worked out in her favour. Basically it’s a lottery - you are betting your mum will outlive her equity, they are betting she won’t, and they have more data, are the ones doing the sums, and are keen to reduce their risk.

There is an awful moment when your parent goes into care when you realise all that equity is gradually going to be spent, but that’s what “saving up for old age” means.

Your mum has about 8 years’ money; either she will not use all that money up, or she will outlive her savings and we taxpayers will pick up the costs of her care.

High interest rates mean that annuities are relatively cheap at the moment.

My elder sister and brother who had P of A took out one for our mother, who had dementia. It took a hefty chunk out of her savings and TBH I did wonder at the time whether it was going to be worth it - she was already almost 89 when she moved to the care home. She came from a large and generally long-lived family, but even so, none had lived into their 90s.

However, thank goodness they did it - she went on to shortly after her 97th birthday. (Which IMO does say something about the very good care she received.). My sister worked out that we had broken even at roughly the 4 year mark. The annuity covered the difference between her income and the fees until she died.

However, this was at a time when interest rates were rather lower than now.
The annuity company took some time to make the offer, having studied her medical history etc. and made a calculated bet on how long she was going to live.

The attendance allowance forms can be done online or on paper. Get the paper version.

Partly because the online version is an absolute nightmare to fill in - very badly set up. But mainly because if you use the paper version payments will be backdated to the date you requested the form, whereas with the online version they only backdate to when you submit the form.

As for the money disappearing, you will be spending a big chunk of it either way. All annuities are an actuarial gamble, and the firms selling them have professional actuaries - so they are more likely to 'win' the financial bet of whether you pay them more for the annuities or they pay you more for the care.

However, the stakes on your side aren't just financial. There's also the value of certainty.

How do you balance the high probability of an annuity costing you a bit more but giving you guaranteed set payments for as long as needed, against the low probablilty of direct payments costing you a lot more, and the very low probability of running out and having to deal with unwanted care home moves for someone by then in their 90s?

Everyone has their own circumstances and risk tolerance, so you'll need to decide that for yourselves once you have a quote and a better idea of prognosis.

If your mum needs full time care because of dementia she will qualify for the full attendance allowance . Form is very long but not difficult .

I know a lot of people will disagree with this but I truly felt that the care home was better for my mum than being in her own home as there was so much going on in terms of different activities rather than just sitting watching her TV.

But it will probably be bale to be claimed at some point- so you need to factor that into costs

I have to say that no-one I know has had an issue getting it- in many parts of the country. Just need to be persistent and get everything in place.

But it's not. It's paying for 24/7 on call care. For food, for heating, lighting, building maintenance, gardening, insurance, taxes, staff training and uniform, laundry, etc etc etc. £7.70 an hour is pretty good going. I paid more than that in nursery fees over twenty years ago.
It's what we save for all our lives. To buy in help and care as needed.
Or would you have a better use for it at this stage in her life?

OP just be wary of people shouting CHC at you, it really is just for a few % of the most complex patients. If Mum is in a care home not a nursing home then she absolutely isn't CHC.
I'd price up the policy, but it likely isn't worth having.

If your Mum is deemed to have lost capacity and therefore has primary care needs, has she be assessed to see if she is entitled to Continuing Health Care Funding?

It is notoriously difficult to get, but only because they make it so. CHC has a limited budget but it doesn't mean to say she isn't entitled to it, it can just be stressful going through the process.

We used an Elder Care consultant to help us with CHC and she was amazing. Also, we spoke to Beacon which an NHS-funded help line that can answer questions as to whether CHC funding is an option.

https://beaconchc.co.uk/

Good luck, it is a very trying time.

By disappear do you mean it won’t be available for you to inherit? From what I can see it’s being put to good use, it’s paying for care for your mum. Surely that’s more important than leaving it behind? They probably saved he’d to make sure they had enough for that eventuality.

It’s not going to disappear, it’s going to be used to pay for her necessary care.
Have you considered applying for continuing healthcare funding? If she has complex nursing needs she may qualify. Having gone through this for my stepfather I would advise using a professional firm to help with the application, it could be money well spent.
She has plenty of equity to pay for care for a long time. If she’s self funding, she will also be eligible for attendance allowance, which is £101 per week. Add this to her pension and this will pay for 20 weeks’ care per year, so in reality she will be paying for the additional 32 weeks, which equates to about 13 years worth of fees. That’s without having her money invested wisely - half a million is going to gather a LOT of interest.

The money wouldn't just disappear, it would be being used to buy quality care and security for your mother. Perhaps that's one of the things that your dad worked so hard to save for.

Honestly it won't
She will probably not need care for long- have you had a social care assessment? They may well pick up the cost or part of it.

You seem to be heading down one route without being logical.

The 1st point said 83

It doesn't. Its right there at the top of the thread if you want to check.

No, I have no vested interest. We looked into one for my dad and decided against, but they are suitable for some people so ruling them out based on no information whatsoever is bad advice. It's for the OP to weigh up pros and cons - which means discussing both sides.

Most people only live about 3 years following moving to a care home. Almost certainly not worth the gamble. I think you will find only your mums assets are taken into account when working out the finances so half of anything in joint names, everything in her name and nothing in anyone else's name. You will need to check though. My DM had a devastating stroke but did improve but died after 3 years of another stroke.

Are you an annuity salesperson?

The 1st point said 83 and just gone in to care and that she had enough Monet to buy an annuity- all of that indicates that one is unlikely to be a good option

not to the full amount of her care home fees as she had money still coming in from pensions/savjngs/attendance allowance

That's what providers usually recommend. An annuity to cover the difference between income and fees.

@Ametora none of that info was provided before you made you post. And she's already receiving care.

And also, none of that rules out an annuity. She may not want LA funded care. She may prefer a fixed upfront cost - and therefore certainty about what will happen - rather than running down savings by an unknown amount.