McCarthy and Stone - Risks and Benefits

This doesnt make sense, how would he buy one then? If he can afford to buy one then he can rent one surely?

I wouldnt buy/wouldnt want my parents to buy one of these flats, but just to be accurate its not your friend who needs to pay the service charge, it should be charged to the estate as a debt and it will come out the estate once its settled. She shouldnt be doing that

You seem very focused on what is best for you and not what what is best for them

Moving a 90 year old will never have a good outcome

Put home care in place- it seems he has equity and if needed you can release funds to pay for this

If you have an LPA you need to act in their best interests- not your own.

My parents are moving into one in a couple of weeks' time - although they are renting rather than buying, which is apparently becoming more of a thing now. I wouldn't buy based on the numerous horror stories. When renting the landlord is still responsible for paying the service charge. In the complex they are going to there have been the same half a dozen apartments for sale for a year or more.

Where I live, you can move into Extra Care from out of area as long as there is a local connection. The assessment is done by a social worker.

Have you considered Extra Care housing? This is a flat complex, owned by a Housing Association, with a team of care workers on site 24/7.

Tenants have their own flat, there is a communal dining room for lunch. Plus social activities. You pay rent plus a (usually very reasonable) maintenence charge, then you are billed by the hour for your care.

If you contact your local Adult Social Care team they should be able to give you details of schemes near you.

I've been trying to persuade MiL to move to one near us - shes 91, lives 6 hours away and has no one nearby to help her.

I'm an OP Social Worker and don't like the M&S model at all. Extra Care is usually much better. Just not as flashy

What would you get from M&S that he wants/needs that you could not get from buying a regular flat near you and arranging private carers and an alarm pendant?

If he actively wants a community (which he may do, if uprooted from friends and regular haunts) and the community there is something he likes the look of, then it might be worth it for quality of life (but do look at buying an older flat, rather than new; and remember that when you come to sell you have to keep paying charges until it does and the company takes a share of the sale price - so do your sums - or rent).

But id he's not bothered about that, and you want to be able to arrange carers for him rather than take what they offer, then I'd be cautious.

It's the right solution for some people, but when it goes wrong it's a very costly expense (both bills and hassle)

My in-laws in their 90's too are currently selling fil's house and nil's house (2nd marriage) to fund it. They're goi g with another company Adlington and their new apartment is beautiful. We've explored long and hard with them the pro's and cons. Ultimately it's their money and decision. They're still very independent but find the upkeep of their house too much and are fed up of cooking for themselves . The retirement flat is perfect as it maintains their independence, gives them confidence that someone is on call 24/7 and there's a restaurant for lunch.

BiL and his wife bought a McCarthy Stone flat - wouldn’t listen to us when we thought it wasn’t a good idea. They were always cold (economy 7 heating), it was very dark inside, the manager was unkind and rigid in following policy etc.

They eventually bought another house but it took 2 years to sell the flat and all that time they were forced to pay various charges plus a % of the sale to McCarthy Stone.

Keep him at home if you can, alternatively as PPs have said, rent somewhere close to you.

I'd definitely rent. Anchor housing association and other similar organisations offer better value

I used to manage a Mac stone. Lovely looking buildings but the charges are extortionate and they charge for every little thing (unless you get a nice manager who turns a blind eye to certain bits). The care is no better quality than any other non branded home and often more expensive.
Resale on the flats after your person has passed away is often very slow and people often sell at a loss.

We decided to keep our 90 yr old mum in her own home and employ carers through an agency. They do 4 hrs a day 5 days a week. Works well for us. Mum's happy, enjoys the company of the carers and there's no upheaval for her. It's very expensive but she has the money, for now. We'll cross the next bridge when we get to it.

An elderly relative of mine moved into a similar type of property (this was Pegasus, not M&S) in 2021. She really enjoyed living there for the first 12-18 months, but as her health deteriorated and it got harder for her to access the communal facilities it did feel less good value. She died early last year and the flat has been an absolute nightmare to sell - two potential sales have fallen through late in the process due to issues lower down the chain and it's still not sold. The service charges etc are starting to feel like money down the drain at this point, but worse than that is that her child is the executor of her will, and doesn't really feel like they've got closure on her death while the estates not fully settled.

@londonmummy1966 that's a great idea! I would advise the OP to do that but just to check out the legal safeguarding aspects first to keep everyone protected.
I agree that staying in his own home is probably best now as a move would probably be disruptive. It's so difficult to get older people to move house to something manageable while they are still fit enough, then suddenly it all becomes too much.
Would it be possible to find a lodger or companion to live in?

A friend of mine lived in a village
Owned by a charity. He has a beautiful flat, and enjoyed entertaining his friends in the restaurant. But her moved from very close to the city centre, to an area miles out of town. And a long way from the nearest shop, He was an absolute social butterfly and I think he found the isolation a bit tricky. Covid did for him as they weren't allowed to mix at all with their neighbours or even leave the complex. Even though he had first access to the outside. He used to complain about the carers being late and unreliable.

This, 100%. Took us 3 years to sell my DM's flat in an assisted living complex, and all that time we were liable for the ground rent (around £150 pa I think) and the service charges - £550 per month! We eventually sold for £50k less that she bought it for.

Having said that, the complex was lovely and DM enjoyed living there whilst she was able (she eventually had to go into a nursing home). Communal areas inside and out were well maintained and the café lunches were great for Mum.

More anecdotally, the Mc&S block near us is brilliantly located and v cheap for the area but once I looked at it I understood why - they're all horrible, and you choose between nice natural light plus a view of the car park or gloomy with a glimpse of greenery. Plus it actually takes longer to walk from the front door, down narrow striplit corridors, to some of the flats than it does to walk to the local shop. Plus the building contains a lot of smokers and by gum you can smell it. The crappy design and build quality really depresses me - really disrespectful.

One of my neighbours had a mum from the local primary school come in for a couple of hours in the middle of the day - she cooked him lunch and did some straightforward admin stuff like changing his library books and chatted about what was in the paper etc. It worked very well all around as she had a totally school hours friendly job he had a bit of company and his daughters knew that he was eating properly.

I don't recommend this type of accommodation at all. My DF found the meals option withdrawn. The first manager was quite good, but only worked nine to five and emergencies were always when she was off. The second manager was useless. The service charges were outrageous.

DF got very depressed with all the deaths and he actually moved out to a normal house the year before he died. All the men in the building had died, except one, who went to prison for historic child abuse.

He had to pay a percentage of the sale price back, another rip off.

It sounds OP that your relative is at the limit of being independent and is unlikely to cope for long in this environment. I support the idea of renting as his needs may drastically change in a short time.

Didn’t have a great experience with MIL - the lift was frequently broken and the quality of the house manager varied. Reselling wasn’t easy. It did make MIL feel more secure than living independently and she liked the social scene.

Fair point @MereDintofPandiculation! I do think though that increasing care at home is the first step here.

My mum is in similar and I honestly feel this part of the housing market is a bit of a racket that predominantly serves the needs of the Board/exec team/shareholders over those of the residents.

The iniquitous charges that determine you must give a percentage of the sale price for each year the resident has lived there is just one of my many outrages.

Part of me is tempted when the time comes to simply hand back the keys and transfer deeds to them if I thought I could.

I've advised all of my friends who have relatives possibly considering this kind of set up to go in with eyes wide open and scrutinise all the details very carefully.

@blimppy you say he has significant savings, what exactly is he saving for now? This is his rainy day. I think renting these places is the best option by far and resale can be incredibly difficult.

I do think the upheaval will be enormous for him given his obvious increasing frailty. I'm afraid I think it sounds as if he may be moving towards the last months of his life. It may be slower than you think! My dad was about 94 when he reached the state of OPs dad. He’s been bed-bound a year, but is still going strong with every suggestion of carrying on. He’s just celebrated his 101th birthday.

I had some success persuading my dad out to the pensioner’s lunch at the local pub, and to scrambled eggs on toast at the supermarket. Once he became housebound I arranged meals on wheels - see if it’s still operative in your dad’s area. It’s no longer WRVS, it’s a variety of private suppliers, so what is provided is different. In our area it was a hot lunch delivered ready heated, with pudding and a drink, and if you wished, sandwiches and cake left for tea.