McCarthy and Stone - Risks and Benefits

When you google supported accommodation/retirement villages, the McCarthy and Stone properties dominate the search results. After those results, the next ones will be other private builders with similar models.

But as PP say, they’re not the only choices. I would take time to investigate other similar options. For example, we have one near us that is run as a charity, with a board of executives with experience in the sector. When it’s time to selling the property, you are only allowed to sell it back to them. You’ll find other ones with different models. It’s probably worth ringing local organisations such as Age Uk to help explore the different options.

One thing I would flag up though, is that the rent/service charge only covers the basics. As your dad’s needs change, he will then be charged for any extra care he needs. So you’ll end up paying carers fees on top of the other costs.

Whatsmore, if your dad’s health declines, almost all of these types of accommodation will move him out as they can’t meet his needs. At which point, the next step is probably a home. Indeed, you will have to go through quite a lot of health admin before you sign contracts to buy/rent.

Its great that he wants to move near you, but at 90 and with some cognitive decline (repetitive, trouble organising food, appointments etc), you may be best off trialling care in his current home in the first instance. Even an hour a day can be transformational. My parents were so reluctant to have carers in, but the impact on their life has been amazing. In all honesty, I would try to get that in place ASAP, regardless of decisions about moving. It’s really tempting to get lost in a rabbit hole, exploring big solutions, and end up not making a smaller change, such as a daily cater, that can be really impactful.

Good luck

I see this a lot too and have concluded something happens to us all as we get older that changes how we view family help etc.

Yep. My gran lived with us when I was a child, and had dementia. It was tough, and my mum spent the next five decades telling us that we were never to feel that we had to look after her, and absolutely never take her in to live with us.

Then she had a massive disabling stroke and had to live in a care home. When her money ran out and the council had to decide what would happen next, she phoned my brother every single day, telling him that she wanted to move in with him and his wife, and that he 'owed her', and she told the council that that was the plan.

I actually reminded her of what she'd said all our lives but she just ignored me.
It was never going to happen because he has a tiny house and she needs hoists and a wet room etc, so there was no issue for him apart from the emotional blackmail. But it shows how things change when life turns to shit for an elderly person. In fairness her life was (and still is) miserable, so I have a certain amount of empathy.

So if he pays £240k for it and loses a third, that’s £80k, equivalent to 80 months or 6yrs 8months years of renting.

Yes I agree with @TheDowdyQueen. My PILs were always very independent, didn't want to rely on help from family etc. Now my MIL is in her 80s and I'm amazed at her level of entitlement. She seems to expect so much from her son (my DH) and me, despite knowing that we have three DC, busy jobs etc. The retirement accommodation place has lifted that burden from us (while being massively cheaper than a residential care home).

SS had offered a lot of care and the sneaky Mother had refused it saying 'her daughter did it for her so no care needed'.

I see this a lot too and have concluded something happens to us all as we get older that changes how we view family help etc.

So many people, when young, insist they never want to be a burden to their children and will never ask them to help etc. And yet, when it comes to it, so many resist any external help and lean more and more on family - especially daughters.

Not sure what you mean about £90 to change a light bulb. I think as stated previously people get seduced into buying a brand new apartment at say mid to late 80's. This is a terrible idea. The second hand ones are beter value but NO ONE should be buying a property at mid 80's. Either stay in your own home with carers coming in constantly or consider one of these places. Staying in your own place is obviously ideal for YOU but your relatives might have something to say. A lot of the people I meet at the complex do say they didnt really want to move but son/daughter suggested it and although they state they coped just fine in their old place I bet they didnt and spent a lot of time leaning heavily on their children to support them in their own place, didnt want strangers in etc.

I remember a post a while ago about a women who had been run ragged by her Mother. Eventually after a few years this women was on the verge of a breakdown and was appointed POA after many years of trying to persuade parent to do it. She found that years previously SS had offered a lot of care and the sneaky Mother had refused it saying 'her daughter did it for her so no care needed'.

I have a parent in one (renting) and she really likes it. Much closer to me as opposed to 100's of miles away. She was struggling with her old place. Refused carers bevcause she didnt know what they would do....

Some horror stories in the press about these type of properties re. them being a money pit - eg £90 to change light bulb, huge service charges, taking 7 years to sell at a loss in one example etc.

I've never heard good things financially about these places . You will be stuck with it whilst wracking up service charges etc

A friend mum was in one. When she ended up moving to a care home it took them nearly 3 years to sell, then they sold it for about 80% of the original purchase price. So for 3 years her mum was paying service charges AND the care home fees.

The M&C place that's being built near my daughter's is for 70+ only.

When you think about that, the pool of potential buyers is even smaller. And it's not in a highly populated area at all. Quite rural. And M&C encourages new buyers to buy their new flats, not the ones being sold by family. And the buyers, having sold their homes, can afford to buy the nice shiny new ones.

One of my friends said that the managers at her late mum's block were actively making it difficult for people to view her mum's flat. They'd much rather get the money themselves for the ones they were selling and having her still pay the service fee on hers

Abbeyfield also has care homes, so can be a simpler move if he needs more care later.

VERY difficult to sell . And can be a total nightmare with service charges

Bro needs to be aware that he'll also lose his inheritance anyway, because it will be paying the service charge probably for years and the flat will sell for vastly less than his dad paid for it.

At least with rental he and OP won't be left with the stress of trying to sell it and not having access to what's left of their inheritance

We did look at renting, but it would be just over his monthly income to do so. That said, he has fairly significant savings, plus the value of his current house. Perhaps a renting and eating into those savings for his remaining years would be better than being landed with a property that we have to sell at a loss and pay charges on while trying to do so.

I would say that at his age that makes much more sense. He might well not be there for long if he's already showing signs of dementia, and the last thing you want is an apartment that takes years to sell at a significant loss, when he only moved there for a year or two before needing a care home.

I have two friends who inherited M&S apartments. One took two years to sell, the other three (and the latter at a horrific loss...I think about a third of the purchase price) while my friends continued to pay the high service charge for nothing.

See whether you have an Abbeyfield nearby. Similar set up but run by a charity and you rent not buy.

Why the issue about eating into savings? These places are £££ and most people cannot afford out of income!

Definitely rent though at his age.

What would he use to buy the property?

Use that to pay the rent

That's what the capital is for. Your DB sounds very grasping.

My MIL is currently living beyond her income, because she pays for a care worker to come in every day, more for the social aspect than personal care. So she's slowly eating into her savings. That's fine by DH. He's an only child and isn't bothered about any potential inheritance. He's much more bothered about the fact she's the other end of the country and the Care worker is a godsend.

Then that's what you do.
What's best and safest for your dad.
Brother has ulterior motives I suspect. I doubt he'll be the first on call.

@blimppy he's 90, how much savings/capital does he realistically need. Let him spend his money enjoying his last years.

I would assume your brother is rather more thinking of his inheritance.

Firstly, I don’t suppose you live near the Welsh border? They have a fairer charging policy for non residential care at home, with a 100 pw cap, no matter what an individual’s financial situation is like.

My grandfather similarly lived a long way away from my mother. He opted so sell his home, and rent a ground floor flat near to my mum’s. This wasn’t on a retirement complex so much cheaper rent. He then had a lifeline and private carers.

My other grandfather also lived a long way from relatives and opted to remain at home. He had a downstairs shower room installed and moved downstairs, again with private carers.

I know friends who have been trying to sell their late parents M and S flats 2 + years after they have died. Further, IME (adult SW), many residents band together to complain about residents with dementia. Also, I have known wardens to leave and not be replaced; they often provide no more security than an independent flat and a lifeline.

dies

This. Get him closer to you regardless of the cost. As the next few years bring increasing frailty, possible confusion, more need of your input, a large part of this decision will have to be what will be easier and least stressful for you. If he does with next to no monies left it really doesn't matter. He's paying for your piece of mind and quality of life as well as his own.
Unless he has live in carers, carers can leave and he could be on the floor five minutes later. You would be on permanent call.

If you're hell bent on buying M&S, don't buy new, as PP have said, they are very hard to sell (been trying to sell one in my family after the resident needed to go to a nursing home after less than a year, you never know when they'll have a fall, break a hip and not recover) so you can get a massive discount which may offset the fees.