DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

The OP stated in her opening post that DM had moderate dementia, which is a far cry from lost capacity. Lacking insight doesn’t mean she’s not capable of contributing to decisions made about her future and while making unwise decisions may be in some part down to the effects of dementia, it doesn’t mean she’s lost capacity. The OP is clearly in a very difficult situation, but she has an obligation to involve DM as far as possible in any decisions made about her future while she retains even limited understanding. A declaration as to whether DM has capacity or not is a legal issue and can only be made by someone qualified to make that determination.

OP said she’s assuming there will be nothing to inherit. DM has her current funds from one house and then there’s her own house to sell. So she’s not likely to be dependent on state care.

You’ve got POA to protect her finances. Tell the carer to get lost and do what’s best for your mum and her finances.

That poster didn’t say her friend’s mum has no opinion about what happened to her she said that a. It’s very difficult for someone who hasn’t known a person for years whether a person has capacity at any given point; and b. By way of example the GP totally misread her mother.

I don’t see any evidence that that poster’s friend or the OP or anyone on the thread isn’t taking their PoA seriously.

I learnt with my dad that, past a certain point, presenting him with multiple choices, so that I felt I was doing a good job as PoA, and he had agency in his life, simply overwhelmed and upset him. He didn’t have the lucidity to be able to quantify the different things and compare them and he didn’t want to be responsible for the decision.

@mrsm43s she does not have capacity though. She shouldn't be encouraged to burn through funds as she obviously lacks insight. This is basic safe guarding.

That seems a lot to pay for a carer but only £11.90 an hour and not even sure agency worker would get 100% as agency would get a cut.

No direct experience but regarding spending how about (preferably in discussion with other people with capacity and dms best interests in mind - if you do it with other people transparently and take their views into account and document everything then it seems robust)

1. You set out a framework for making financial decisions based on your thoughts about your mum's pre dementia attitudes and priorities and 'what a financially responsible adult might think was reasonable', for instance 'top quality but infrequent purchases' or 'mid range value', 'get three quotes' type approach.
2. Set a budget for 'wants' / fun spends per week or month (she might be able to suggest a figure?).
3. Try to set a budget for 'needs' / living within means.

How so ? The poster said she would have loved there to be no ‘inheritance’ and that implies nothing left. How does that fund private care ?

How long has this carer been in place? She should be rotating every few weeks with another staff member. There's such a thing as a pairing breaking down because both parties get too comfortable and take liberties.

At a more "human" level, if a carer leaves (health problems/ better job/ wins the lottery) the client isn't suddenly presented with someone she has never seen before in his / her life - confusing and upsetting them even further.

She would be going into private so it’s not relevant.

I think some do.

My younger son has been assessed as not having capacity in certain areas (finances being one) . There's a lot of rules around how you act

It would be cheaper for your mum to go into a nursing home!
As for the chair, remember that there’s a possibility that your mum may become incontenent, so make sure it’s an easy to clean waterproof material

All well and good, but what if she had needed to go into full time care ? Social Services would likely have looked on this type of spending as deprivation of assets to avoid care fees and would have treated her as though she still had those assets.

I think that post was from me. And it was based on personal experience and legal advice. And if you have a look at the mental health act underpinning the basis for lasting power of attorney it clearly states that attorneys must make every effort to involve the donor in decisions made on their behalf. And if that means delaying a decision until a time when the attorney knows they will be better able to understand, then that’s what you do.

It’s clear from this thread that a lot of posters have no idea what constitutes capacity, and the legal issues surrounding it. A person may have capacity one day and not the next - for my own mum this is definitely the case. She has advanced vascular dementia, but she has periods of lucidity, during which she is capable of expressing opinions and contributing towards any decisions. Just because your friends’ mum can’t recall certain events, doesn’t mean she has no opinion about what happens to her.

If you’re not prepared to take the role of attorney seriously and familiarise yourself with the mental health act and what it requires of attorneys, then you really shouldn’t take on the responsibility. It’s not just a case of doing what you think is best, it’s all about considering what the donor wants - and if there’s even the slightest chance that they can contribute to decisions concerning them, in my opinion they should be given the opportunity to do so, however small that contribution may be. That’s what it’s about.

We got one for about 400 for FIL that was perfectly adequate. Sadly he had to go into a home shortly afterwards, and we had to practically give it away as no one would pay anything decent for it. So give gumtree/ebay a good look at.

I used to own and run a very little care agency and I see it exactly the same as you. I would have taken immediate action upon learning something like this.

I own and run a large domiciliary care company, including live in carers. I would be extremely concerned about a carer having this much influence over a customer. I suggest you speak to the registered care manager of the company and explain the situation. In this case I would change the carer to someone with more professional boundaries. I understand that it is usually better for the customer to retain the same carer, especially with dementia involved, but this is highly inappropriate behaviour on the carers part! Please speak to the office asap.

< well, ot necessarily those particular items - but you get the drift >

One of my big regrets is that my mother did not spend like Liberace in her final few years. I would have loved for there to have been no inheritance with her spending it on a round the world cruise (with carer or nurse in tow), cashmere throws and smoked salmon and Waitrose fruit. I tried my best to get her to throw caution to the winds.

The live in carer is a worry. I think they are stepping over the line by asking you to buy a new TV etc. Buying 6 jumpers in one week? The carer is not encouraging your mum to be responsible with her money. I would seriously think about changing the carer or you may find other things that are not above board. Maybe ask to speak to a manager and ask if certain behaviour is normal. Also keep a watch on your mother's bank account.

Why are you taking the quote out of context ? You even quoted the first half of her sentence.

She meant "i can afford to fly first class but i choose not to as i would rather give the money to charity or spend it on my children."

the inheritance was not referred to in this sentence. It amazes me how some poster criticise others when they themselves have such limited reading and comprehension abilities that they can't understand even a very simple sentence.

@Valleyofthedollymix Re. the credit cards and how you need to sort something out pronto.

No one outside of the immediate family should have access to your Mum's DOB, credit cards, address, security number on the back of the card, etc.

It's no good assuming the carer is honest. She probably is, but it's negligence on your part to allow this access to your Mum's money.

My Mum, thankfully, doesn't have dementia. She's much older than your Mum and lives alone.

This is how we and my sibling manage her money.

My sibling takes cash out of my Mum's bank account each week, gives it to my Mum, and she uses it to pay for her gardener, or neighbours bringing her shopping. This gives her some control.

Anything else, like purchases for clothes, household items like a freezer she needed, I buy for her using my credit card.

(My Mum can use her iPad to look for clothes, etc, but we don't trust her to navigate online sales at her age.)

My Mum transfers a certain amount of money into mine and my siblings' bank accounts a couple of times a year.
We use that to pay whatever she's bought on our credit cards. I do online bank transfers so I have the statements and she can see what's been spent- so it's all very transparent.

On a dog walk this afternoon I met up with a friend who is currently trying to work out how to care for her elderly mother who is increasingly confused. I mentioned this thread and the responses from the lawyer/ social worker/ human rights folk who talk about it being a breach of human rights to make decisions on behalf of people who trusted you enough, when they were well, to ask you to be their attorney. I told her about the post here from someone who says that if on a good day, at the right time of day, someone might have the capacity to make their own informed decisions then there is a legal obligation to keep consulting them — and she just laughed and then got tearful.

She asked how anyone who hasn't known the person for years could have any idea whether they were cogent and had capacity at any moment. She pointed out that until quite recently her mother's GP had assured her on various occasions that her mother was showed no sign of memory loss or intellectual impairment. He didn't seem to believe anything she reported about her mother's behaviour. Then one day when she took her mum in for an appointment the GP asked whether her mum had enjoyed her week in Broadstairs with Bernard. My friend pointed out that her mum hadn't been on holiday to Broadstairs for 50 years, and that Bernard died in 2012. At that point the GP conceded that maybe it was time to do some assessments. But until that moment, apparently, she had been fully compos mentis.

I think now if anyone asked me whether they should accept a request to be an attorney I'd say no. I had 18 years looking after my aunt and even though I had it relatively easy, I had responsibilities for things like selling her home (200+ miles away), visiting her every few weeks, managing her money and dealing with all the various complications that arose. I was allowed to charge my expenses and that was it. I gave hundreds, possibly thousands, of hours of work — because it was work — for free. Most of the other other attorneys I've met have been women, because it's mostly the women in the family who are expected to do the caring.

This sounds really inappropriate. Can you raise it with the agency?

Sorry haven't RTTT but your situation is very similar to the one we were in. I felt I was drowning under purchases!
But a care company should insist on an OT assessment as much to protect themselves as to help you. So get that done, and see what they think about the chair. You might even get given one if it's needed. Alternatively (as I sadly know) there's a quick turnaround on the second hand market because purchases of said chairs may not last long.

Good luck. The whole thing is brutal x