DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

I had exactly the same with the my mum re the chair. There was a very cocky salesman in her house.

He had brought a sample chair in, erected it and let her test it out. She wanted the chair, I was furious, she signed the order etc.

He and I ended up having a very heated 'discussion'. The deluxe chair was magically reduced from approx £7k to £4750 (be cause he liked her!!!!)

He asked my mum if she was old enough and wise enough to choose what to larn her arse in to watch Corrie!! Then refused to let me speak.

As he was taking the chair to pieces and returning it to the van bit by bit I locked the door so he couldnt get the last bit of his chair, briefcase or order pad. Whilst he was shouting outside and then calling the police I was calling the very well known company to explain the exploitive disgusting sales tactics praying on vulnerable people.

The police came, sided with me, and I got a crime number (to add impetuous to my complaint I think). I also reported them to advertising standards (false representation) and trading standards (multiple reasons).

It still makes me cross to think about it. The whole situation took about 6 hours.

I find it strange the carer seems to be encouraging her spending like this.

Well, I don't have that worry.
My parents were both dead at 63 and 65.

OPs mother clearly IS wealthy and I think the 6 cashmere sweaters in a week is likely an exaggeration but, even if it's not, if mother can afford it, why not if it makes her happy?

That makes sense though. If my mother was spending endless money on things like clothes she really didn't need, I'd be really concerned. It's one thing if the mother is rich but I know mine aren't, so I'd be concerned that her doing so ultimately means she will run out and guess who is going to be looked at the foot the bill? I don't know how old your parents are but mine are getting there, and it's really scary thinking of what is going to happen when they get older and run out and I can't afford to pay for everything. I don't care about inheritance at all. I assume OP knows just how much her mother has and how much it will stretch. I never knew having aging parents bought so much anxiety until I started getting there.

I'd guess, because the more money mother spends, the less inheritance there'll be when she's gone ... and I did hesitate when writing this and wondered if I was being too harsh but, OP isn't worrying that there'll be no money for carers or they'll need to sell the house ... just that mother is spending it on whatever she wants... I don't like the blame & unnecessary accusatory statements about the carer either.

Your mother has you over seeing her finances for a reason so you have no choice but to help her spend responsibly.

She could live on, needing care for more than a decade and it is wicked to waste her financial security. Scarves that are not uunpacked and an over priced chair instead of money in the bank for paying the rates, medication and carers is irresponsible.

There will be a more reasonably priced chair or one for hire should she ever need a chair. If your mother had all of her marbles she would be horrified at how her childish grabs for 'pretty' are being encouraged and enabled by the carer and those in charge of her financial security.
Your mother might get just as much daily joy out of simple, inexpensive and healthy things like a peach, a rose, music or a cross work kit.

@Mirabai

I agree. My grandma's move was very positive despite wanting to stay at home. She had become very angry and erratic and really calmed as a result of the move - it gave her back structure and a world that she could understand, with a level of constant human interaction/company available to her.

Yes, she knew her own house, but she was really struggling and could only do the most basic things - going to toilet, simple meals. If something broke or went wrong, for example, she no longer had capacity to work out why and might not remember to tell her children or her carer and then she'd be on her own when she came across it again until she could recall it at the right time to get help - it's quite frightening to live in that way.

Ancestors meh. It’s hers. If she wants to spend it, and she’s getting pleasure from it then let her get on with it.

As for the carer….. if she gets on with your Mum and meets her needs then I’d consider gritting my teeth and putting up with her. Better the devil you know.

I’m very glad to see you’ve had some success already in making changes and getting appropriate care for your Mum. I appreciate that things differ area to area, but when my DF was in decline, I found that OT via the Local Authority was actually one of the most ‘on-it’ of all the agencies so hopefully that will all happen quickly for you.

As for your mother’s dementia, I’d say you’re wise to try to cut down on unnecessary spending - a close friend of my DM was diagnosed with dementia two years ago and she and her family muddled on for a while with everyone managing, until suddenly she deteriorated very quickly (though still quite physically healthy). Finding a place in a good care home has been challenging because there are only so many beds available for people with dementia, and she’s spent most of the past year in hospital due to difficulty finding her a place and then multiple falls in the home. There will come a time when she needs money thrown at her as your father did, but it seems you haven’t reached that point yet, and the carer may even be enabling a deterioration in your mother’s physical health by doing too much for her and allowing her to be over-indulgent with her diet!

I agree. It’s very very difficult.

@comeagainx

I used to think that until we had to move my aunt into a care home. She chirped up no end and I regret not moving her earlier - we had stuck to the received wisdom to keep her at home as long as possible. She wasn’t even attached to any of her objects from home other her photos of her family and her dogs. I don’t think she could even remember it at that point. She remembered her childhood home though, as many dementia patients have better memory of earlier years.

Past a certain stage in dementia - there is no orientation in terms of bed, my bathroom etc - everything is random. My father has no idea where the kitchen is he has to be told every day.

I have concluded that it’s a shock for old people to move from a long time home if they’re compos mentis. It’s difficult to generalise because every case is different but past a certain stage with dementia they don’t even know where they are.

@Noped

would you consider writing a book about this phase of life and how family members can prepare to support their (more often than not) parents through it well?

as my parents get to their late 70s I’m starting to think about this. Thankfully they are both still fit and active now. But seeing one of the PIL have a sudden life event which means they have suddenly shifted into a physical disability from which they won’t fully recover makes me realise how things from now on can change anytime and when it does it can be rapid and significant.

But compared to say having a baby or young child where there are endless books you can read, there’s very little on this.

and I can bet once you’ve lived through it you’re and expert but by then it’s too late to go back and do it better.

@comeagainx you think someone's dementia can massively deteriorate in just 24 hours? My father was moved out of his home first to hospital after a fall and then care home when it became clear he could not return home. No private money here and he needed more than 4 care visits a day.

Sadly (not addressing this to anyone specifically just a general observation) lots of people turn a blind eye to this because they don't want to deal with the huge challenges (and costs) that go with trying to keep someone with advanced dementia in their own home safely

It is simply not possible to care for most severely demented people in their own homes. The health of the daughter who has to deal with this will deteriorate massively, and the caring burden causes her life expectancy to be reduced.

@asrarpolar

Also peoples dementia can be masked while they are in their own home and routines. I was shocked at how bad my dads dementia was when he had to move out of his home.

This is completely the wrong perspective and I'm very surprised if your father had dementia that you don't know this. It's not that dementia is masked when they are in their own home, it is that they are better in their own home and where their routines are AND moving them tends to accelerate decline if late stage. Routine and familiarity enables people with dementia to continue to have a good quality of life.

Moving someone to a new environment, especially if they have lived there in their own home for decades, is one of the worse things you can do - because the shock of a new unfamiliar environment will accelerate their decline.

A simple example might be they know where their bed is and can orientate themself there. If they are mobile, they will know where the lavatory is and how to get there so this can continue to facilitate continence. Or if they aren't mobile, they take comfort in their own bedroom and the familiar view out of the window.

Moving to a care home or a new place will totally disorientate someone with dementia. An inability to learn new information or a new routine might mean that someone can't remember where the lavatory is now, can't get there in time so end up in pads and incontinent because that's the only way staffing levels in homes allow it to be managed.

Sadly (not addressing this to anyone specifically just a general observation) lots of people turn a blind eye to this because they don't want to deal with the huge challenges (and costs) that go with trying to keep someone with advanced dementia in their own home safely.

@Valleyofthedollymix I'd have been telling the agency just how much she was whinging about them to you. Not professional. I'd also look into if this behaviour by the carer comes under financial abuse. Your mother is vulnerable and is obviously spending the majority of her time with the carers. Does she have a social worker? Also direct payment arrangements have some sort of oversight as I've talked to other carers that do this sort of work. It protects both sides.

Great that the OT is now involved, everything does take ages but I can't believe that a salesman was arranged before talking to family first. I'd definitely get new carers/agency in as it sounds like their relationship is too cosy and has transcended a professional level/distance between them.
Good luck with it all.

@Valleyofthedollymix I'm late to this thread and you've had some great advice. Also WELL DONE on getting the bit between your teeth and getting on with it today - sounds like you had a very productive day.

Just adding in my experiences...

My dm (and df) had made to measure electric rise/recline chairs. They cost £3k about 15 years ago (which was more than the house they lived in cost when they bought it in the 1950s!!). dm had Parkinsons but at that time was still mobile and could manage stairs. However, they both got excellent use out of their chairs for the next 5-6 years. They could relax with their feet up while watching TV, as they got more infirm it meant thay could nap in comfort during the day, and getting up to go to the (downstairs) loo was still possible even when dm was very frail. I'm glad dm got hers while her memory was OK, it meant that later on in life she knew how to use it (muscle memory when her brain memory was shot).

My dMIL had one that was not made-to-measure. It still cost over £2k, a couple of years ago. We now have it in our garage and find anyone who wants it, let alone anyone willing to pay a few quid for it. (we're about to donate it to a local day centre charity).

Good idea to look at alternatives for your dm's carer. My PILs had live in care for a period and it was so worth it for all of the family's peace of mind - especially if your dm has dementia. Having someone to regulate their time: "now it's time to get up / eat breakfast / have your dinner / go to bed" That is so important, particularly as her dementia progresses.

I've not read the whole thread but we were offered a chair for my mum via the local council OT. Sadly, her decline was so rapid that she didn't get to use it but I'd suggest that as your first port of call.

'If her mum still has the capacity to contribute to decisions about her care, then OP can’t disregard her wishes or act independently of them.'

This is exactly why multi disciplinary reviews are necessary, it really helps to ensure that everyone is acting in the persons best interests, that they're in the right placement, and they can make their views known too if they have capacity and any HCPs present will know exactly how much weight to give that. One person really can't do this on their own and SS can be really helpful when navigating elder care.

Very elderly people do tend to lose their hunger through inactivity and just focus on what tastes lovely. DFIL in his latter years preferred to consume his calories quickly as pudding; so did DMIL. After dementia is diagnosed, I am not sure it matters much as there's no cure for getting old. Once the will to pursue life and look after the garden has expired, it's the long road out. Bleak, I know, but my experience.

OP, have you got LPA for property and finance AND health and welfare? Often people only have the first. If you don't have the second you are not entitled to make any decisions about the person's care, that will require a mental capacity assessment, and best interests decision.

As a POA the financial decisions have to be in the best interest of the person. Even if the mum believed in living very frugally to preserve the inheritance for her children, that can't be the guiding principle behind the choices the POA makes. It all has to be about the persons welfare both short term and in the longer term. In the same way even if she had a strict diet all her life but now wants to eat unhealthy treats this should be allowed to an extent, but not so much it could make her uncomfortable or gain so much weight it would affect her quality of life.

My grandmother ate very healthily all her life, very minimal sugar. In her later years she had some physical problems but she did not suffer from dementia and was able to make informed decisions. She chose to eat more sugary foods because she had very little sense of taste and sweet foods were the only thing she really enjoyed. As she could no longer do a lot of her former activities she didn't want to deprive herself of the little treats she could still enjoy. But she was still able to make wise choices and enjoy these things in moderation, so she did not get any ill effects.

You can't base your decisions on what she would have done when she was well, as you don't know if she would now decide differently based on her circumstances. She needs to be comfortable, while at the same time avoiding as many of the ill effects of making poor decisions due to her condition.

As a wealthy woman she can afford some luxuries without impacting her future well being, if she wants quite a lot of good quality clothes and furniture then she should have it. At some point there needs to be a bit of good sense applied to the spending though so that in the long term she can continue to have a comfortable lifestyle and the best care.

The carer should be working with you to achieve a balance of keeping your mum happy without overspending or overeating all the time. As pp have said there are ways of doing this without making her feel restricted.

We had to manage grandmothers diet carefully once she got dementia as she would only eat biscuits, sweets, puddings if they were on the house and no other food.

The carer would prepare the food and keep dessert on her car for lunch and dinner so grandmother ate a proper meal.

It's hard

There is surely a middle ground here ...if an NHS OT is going to be several weeks or months away then arrange a private OT to carry out an independent home assessment.

This can be organised very quickly and will ensure OP's Mum and house is assessed appropriately and recommendations made. It sounds like there is plenty money there for this, why should the OP's mum be hanging around needlessly?

There's a very quick trend to demonise this carer who is apparently pilfering cashmere jumpers and all sorts according to people on this thread. But she is the one with day to day care and experience of OP's mums needs, as acknowledged by OP herself.

Get an independent 3rd party assessment, but there is no need to hang around waiting for an NHS job when it sounds like there is plenty to cash to move quickly on adaptations that will be best now and in the future.

Make sure all parties are present for this and have access to the final report.

I can only imagine some posters on this thread in the same position themselves in 20/30/40 years time, being told by their own children what they can buy with their own money and how they can not have their preferred carer as their kids disagree.

OP clearly stated in opening post, mobility is a concern more than cognition.

It's clear that you are kind OP & it sounds like you are tying yourself up in knots to do the best for your DM but it's not always about what she wants.

Maybe consider what would make things the easiest for you as it's likely that you are never going to please her OP - largely due to her dementia - so perhaps it's time to put yourself first.