DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

@Mac11 Get an LPA in place ASAP. OP has said, and it’s been referred to many times in the thread, that OP holds LPA

I am a live in carer, private at the moment, but have worked with agency’s in the past.
the amount your paying is way above the going rate. Depending on clients needs companionship with no PC rates are half of what you have said. Also, you could change to a weekly food allowance for carers food ( £50 ish) per week.
you need to look around and find a better more affordable rate.
the usual way would be to give the carer a float each week for shopping, they spend what is needed and present the receipt to you. At no time would I have access to clients bank card.

Worrying on so many levels, not just the money. Could you initiate a meeting with the agency to review the care and spending? And given you have PoA could you reclaim the debit card?

You can get tailor made recliners for a lot less. My husband has had a stroke and he got measured for one that cost £1,800. When the salesman came he thought it was marvellous but when it turned up he hated it! I had a legal battle to get the money back. So be careful, £4,500 is excessive - if she really want one she can get a very good new one for less than half that.

I would strongly recommend getting a quote from HSL for riser chairs. They are brilliant and no gard sell. But bevyhere for the visit

I think the carer influence is worrying!!

My Dad has dementia and on site carers in his retirement village that come in 3 x day.
They take him food shopping, but wouldn't be involved in his clothes purchasing.
I think I would ask the carer to not involve herself in financial decision making.
Do you have PoA and does she have capacity?

I am a community physio, riser recliner chairs have their place but consider

• can she use buttons
• is she able to get out of current chair, if she can then riser function will decrease her power / ability to transfer long term
• when rising it is possible to slip out
• measure her widest part (hips) when sitting this is the width and depth is seated hip to back of knee measurement and height is foot to back of knee - this will give you a well fitting chair

I would say 4.5 k is on the expensive side. You could visit a mobility shop to test one out to see if your mum can use it safely. Get another quote from another company.

NHS OT in our area would not get involved with riser recliner unless it was an issue of postural management, which it doesn’t sound it is. Other counties may be different. There are grants depending on area but most are income / savings awarded. OT / community physio should be able to sort rails / equipment (walking aids / toileting / showering etc…). referral is normally though Adult Social Care. But be prepared for a wait for this.

If you have a decent relationship with the carer just have a chat with her in private.

You don’t have to go into detail, you can just say that you are concerned at the rate of spending, given that you care deeply for DM and sincerely hope that you will be funding many more years of assistance to help her stay happy and live independently and would prefer prior consultation on major purchases and a more moderate approach to general expenses (if you need an example you can say that she doesn’t need a cashmere jumper for each day of the week).

I suspect there is a bit of vicarious pleasure in spending happening here. Be assertive, they can’t put a “black mark” against you when you are electing to pay them. Unless there is some additional consequences/considerations that I am unaware of (quite possible!) then I think your worries in this regard are more about how you are percieved.

re: Chair, agree with others that they won’t retain their value and you’re best trying to find a second hand model and sell the idea of that to DM.

good luck, sounds a tough situation.

Dear dolly,
I agree with just about everyone that has replied.
DON'T buy mum a £4.5£ chair!
In the case of my mum, who was actually nothing like your mum, she lived in a supported housing set up where there were loads of wealthy (mainly) women who were visited twice a year by companies who, to my mind, exploited a group of bored wealthy women.
Anyone attending one of their presentations was given a 'free' gift - in my mum's case she chose a cheap cotton shopping bag. I think it is verging on the criminal, even if people had capacity.
We bought my mother a riser chair and she did use it for a while. But then she couldn't use it anymore and a charity came and collected it and I hope made a nice sum from it. Buy your mum one from eBay or charity.
Don't get guilt tripped by her carers or your mum. You're doing amazingly!

Sounds like the carer has too much control. That's too expensive for the chair. You need to

1. Get rid of carer, the agency will be contracted to replace. I wouldn't trust someone who has that amount of influence over a patient who has memory problems. Who knows what else the carer is doing? Buying things on line and using a debit/credit card???
2. Get an LPA in place ASAP.

1. Riser/recliner chairs are made to measure but it doesn't have to be THAT exact and there's a second hand market. Shop around. I wouldn't pay more than £250.

Can you put a limit on the card that the carer uses?

Adult Sw W here. Your mum may be self funding but she is absolutely entitled to an assessment of need and advice around care planning.

I would get the OT involved before buying anything as I've known of a few nasty accidents where people have been tipped from riser recliners because they didn't have the cognition to use the control.

What type of dementia does your mum have? Disinhibition can often be a characteristic and that can involve excessive spending. It may be worth contacting local dementia services for advice too.

If the carer has your mum's bank card, that is a concern for all parties. Maybe consider using prepaid 'credit' style cards where set amounts can be loaded on.

Have you missed the many posts from people who say that the woman will lose core muscle strength if she has such a chair?

Or forget how to make it go down, and fall out of it?

As someone with mobility problems (72 and disabled) I bought one of these chairs from the same company for myself 4 years ago and I love it. It has a built in battery so you can't get stuck if the power goes down - or only if the cleaner accidentally unplugs it and forgets to plug it back in again as mine once did. I am not a standard size or shape and it was fitted to me perfectly. I bought a second cheaper one for the bedroom and never use it. Much inferior though not cheap at over £1,000. You can't just buy a second hand chair and expect it to be comfortable for her. Poor lady. I fully understand your concerns generally but in this case it is money well spent. Before anyone says it I haven't been paid to say this I just think a comfortable chair and bed are particularly important. Scarves and jumpers not so much!

Years ago a similar thing happened with my gran and grandad, he'd had a knee op and she was early stages of dementia spending a bit like your DM currently. This company called them offering a chair loft into the bath type thing, the girl was apparently lovely and used their "first" names. She was apparently the daugher of the owner of this apparently lovely family run company! They basically wanted to charge 10k for knocking through their lounge wall to fit plates for this monstrosity lift thing. my gran was totally sucked in until my mum found out they'd already handed over 5k, mum called them up demanded a refund and told them to stop calling or there would be police involvement. They got the money back as it was something they absolutely didn't need and had been sold completely fraudulently and it just shows how they prey on unsuspecting older people. They reel them in with nice friendly conversations to get their money etc etc!! They'd also been sold an electric garage door with remote everything for a garage they never used to store a car and absolutely did not need!

Sorry, meant to add to previous post - try calling around private care homes. Sometimes they get left behind by former residents and they may be keen to sell. Harsh but practical.

These things aren't cheap, but that is ridiculous. Shop around. I think we spent about £950 on one a few years ago.

Yes I would be concerned with the influence of the carer.
I agree with getting a physio assessment, having worked in care home management for a number of years I saw lots of inappropriate chairs bought and agree there can more danger of falling out if there are mobility issues.
Also why would your mum need so many jumpers.
It’s much easier to limit amount of clothes to allow her to make her own choice of clothing for as long as possible. If mobility and cooperation deteriorates due to dementia quite often front buttons and stretchy clothing are easier to manage. Reduces distress for the person and better management for the carer. Is this person experienced enough to recognise this, maybe you could discuss these issues with them.
I also have personal experience with looking after my mum who had dementia.
hope these points help.

My parents spent £3,000 each on riser recliner chairs and don't have them plugged in and just use them like normal chairs. Mum is 85 with Alzheimer's and step dad is 93.

Yes, of course, but I got the impression from the OP's posts that the self-infantilisation was a pre-existing characteristic which has been exacerbated rather than initiated by the Alzheimer's, though perhaps I misread that.

Dementia is by it’s very nature infantilising. This is not something she is doing to herself it is the effect of damage to her brain.

My aunt, who had dementia, was very small all her life, yet had a good appetite for food. When her dementia progressed the part of her brain that regulates appetite and satiety was affected, as was impulse control. And she had no memory so she didn’t remember eating. As a result she piled on weight and her food intake had to be monitored so as not to add health issues around weight gain to her existing ones.

Upmarket care homes are basically like luxury hotels with care added, so that’s not actually untrue.

Your mother sounds entitled and self-infantilising - while your father was alive he probably absorbed a lot of this and it's quite possible it worked for them both psychologically, especially if they had quite traditional views on gender roles.

The dementia will be having a disinhibiting effect which will explain both the splurges and the 'greediness' after years of probably quite unhealthy self-denial, imposed because she found her own appetites and those of others morally disgusting in one way or another.

I would work on selling an 'upmarket, hotel-style' care home to your mother. I think she might genuinely take to the idea if you get the tone right, emphasising the 'fully staffed' and 'just like a nice hotel but with qualified staff on hand' and 'smart restaurant' stuff. I'm usually a big fan of honesty but in situations like this there is something to be said for encouraging a kind of gentle self-delusion to allow her to keep face - especially since she's clearly got those kind of reality-avoidant tendencies anyway.

It could be closer to you and will likely cost less than the carer.

You now get paid if you are sleeping at work. It is a legal requirement.

Lacking insight doesn’t automatically mean lacking capacity.

A bad decision is just as valid as a good one.

If you go out and have a drink then you may lose insight into your behaviour and decide that you actually fancy drinking a whole bottle of vodka. It’s a terrible choice to make, and possibly one you’d not make if you’d not had the initial drink. You didn’t lose capacity to make that choice though when you had your first drink. A bad choice is still a valid choice.

I have a resident with a fake leg. He insists on climbing stepladders in the garden. He had an accident in 1990 and suffered a significant brain injury as well as the leg amputation.

As of this date he has not been deemed to have lost capacity. The law protects that right. All I can do is say ‘John, I really think it’s potentially a bad idea for you to climb that stepladder’. That’s where safeguarding begins and ends.