DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

Spending on behalf of an elderly relative with dementia is supposed to be related to the type of priorities they would have had when compos mentis.
So, if they would have paid for a grandchild's school fees, it includes that, if it would have meant mending a jumper rather than buy a new one, then ditto.

My DAunt has Parkinson's related dementia and has always been frugal but I believe my DCousin has POA and has in any case been subtly trying to keep things newer and safe because her tendencies to scrimp and save have rocketed even while she has new needs. DCousin is trying to keep her spending as she would have done in the past (or a bit more generous, but not extravagant).

If you read the OP’s updates, the carer doesn’t actually use the card for anything other than the weekly supermarket shop, which the OP checks. You can’t just sack someone for financial abuse without some proof it’s happening, and although I agree the carer seems to be encouraging expensive spending, there’s nothing in the OP’s posts to suggest she’s taking anything for herself. It’s a recipe for an unfair dismissal claim and possibly other legal action.

Fair point, but you have to weigh this up against the possibility of her falling if she struggles to get out of a chair. With dementia, at some point she’s going to be a serious fall risk. As others have suggested, she’d probably be better having an OT assessment before buying, to ensure the chair meets her needs.

It is a lot but she is getting one to one care (24/7?)

More like a friend/assistant?

My dad was in a lovely home but he couldn't just do what he wanted when he wanted as there wasn't the staff to be at his beck and call.

This. I am astounded that the carer has DM's bank card! Have you checked to see if all the stuff being bought is actually at DM's house? That would be bad enough but.... Is all this stuff being bought online? Is DM ordering it or the carer? It can be returned within 2 weeks if you take control. Something is very off here.

Re. The chair: my late father had one. It was super expensive but really useful for him as he had a degenerative condition and needed to be helped out of chairs etc. My mother was strong but petite and the chair made it easier for her to help him. It also looked nice — she cared for him at home but loathed the idea of the house looking like a hospital.

Re. The money: the carer should not have access to your mother’s card. Just not. If she’s with an agency there is no way that they would allow it officially. She may be just following your mother’s wishes, but she is making herself and her employers vulnerable to accusations of fraud and theft. You need to cancel that card and rearrange your mother’s finances so that there is no access to large amounts of money. Day to day spending OK, so that she preserves a feeling of autonomy, but this is what POA is for.

Because providing a piece of equipment that is unnecessary can cause physical deterioration.
If her core muscles weaken further due to lack of use, then it won't be just the chair she struggles with, she will struggle with toileting and mobility. No doubt the disability equipment suppliers will upsell her a nice wheelchair then.

It is also doubtful whether her mother has the mental capacity to understand any of this, or indeed the implications of her spending.

You have to sack this carer ASAP. She is financially abusing your mother and all of you. All the items bought have to go into an registry and upon dismissal the carer has to be there and all items be present and accounted for.

And this is really the point isn’t it ? If DM is swayed by the carers’ expensive tastes and is burning through her funds then her condition, and how far the dementia has progressed, really needs to be reviewed. Not saying that the carer is exactly financially abusing her, but it’s not hard to see how it could tip over into abuse when the dementia is advanced. Time for lasting power of attorney if it hasn’t already been done, and then withdrawing the bank card from the carer, or at least imposing a weekly withdrawal limit it on it with the bank.

But surely if your dad loved the chair it wasn’t a waste of money.

When my mother got dementia, she lost her ability to gauge the value of money. A bit like a child she didn't know that £50 was 'more than' £20.
Or that £1 coin was 'more than' a 50p.

She'd be handing money in a shop and asking the person at the till to 'you take how much it is love'.

But all the while appearing 'fine' to the casual observer.

A useful tip might be to pause or delay the ordering of things for a couple of weeks because she might forget about it.

It might be possible to buy a second-hand riser chair.

She has a point though. If DM has already tried the chair and thinks it’s suitable for her needs, then why not, if she has the funds for it. I have rheumatoid arthritis and bought one of these chairs a while back - cost just over 3k and it’s made such a difference. I shopped around and the cheaper ones are not the same - you get what you pay for, as long as it’s doing what it says on the tin, so to speak.

No, but there are plenty of them on Ebay.

I don’t think I’d quibble about the chair if it will make her life easier, but I agree you should make sure she’s getting what she pays for. I would certainly be having a word with the care agency though, regarding the carers’ behaviour around DM’s money. Have any of you got Lasting Power of Attorney for her - if she has been diagnosed with dementia and you haven’t got LPA you need to do it before she loses capacity, and ensure that it’s usable as soon as it’s registered so that you have a say in what’s going on now.

The problem as far as I can see, is that as the dementia progresses, any financial abuse that may be involved on the part of the carer will just get worse. At least with an LPA you could put a stop to it by withdrawing the bank card and supervising any further withdrawals.

"I used to sell these chairs for a living".

Yes, you can tell.

Could you not use private healthcare for the OT referral ?

The dementia is clearly affecting your Mum's cognitive ability in terms of understanding money. You have power of attorney and need to tell the carers that spending (perhaps above a certain weekly amount) has to be agreed with you first. It is really hard, I know. I have a different situation with similarities with an adult daughter with additional needs and no understanding of money. It's a nightmare to stop the unnecessary spending on rubbish, even if it means there's nothing left to spend on basics. You will need to be like a broken record, both to your Mum and carers 'there isn't enough money for this item' again and again. Good luck.

My dad bought one of these chairs not sure what company he bought it from but it cost over a £1000. ( about 5 years ago )
I told him he could have bought a second hand one for £100 but he went ahead and bought it new.
After he died last year we sent it to a charity shop as it was difficult to sell privately.
First of all they are heavy to lift due the electric mechanism so difficult for someone to get into a small vehicle.
We tried local nursing homes but they weren't interested even for less than £50.
It was in very good condition btw
We ended up donating along side other furniture to a hospice charity who had a van and two men to collect it.
Smaller charities weren't interested due to lack of delivery / collection options / space in their shops.
Also I have worked in a charity furniture store and due to health & safety of drivers we were not allowed to sell these chairs to anyone in first or second floor flats without a lift due to the weight of the product.
So although dad loved his chair it was a complete waste of money and a complete pain to get rid of after he died.
On the plus side the hospice shop that finally took it got some money out of it.

Provided she has the ability to use the controls, this could massively improve her comfort and quality of life

As she has dementia, she'll soon forget how to use the controls.

Don't think riser recliners come on the NHS.

When DM first came out of hospital, no-one suggested that she have one, despite the OT and physio providing her with all sorts of other equipment to help with ADL. I get the impression they don't recommend them because a lot of people wouldn't be able to afford to buy one.

If your mother is comfortably off (which it sounds as if she is), I'm not sure the carer is doing anything wrong. She's just trying to ensure your DM has the best quality of life possible, surely?

FWIW, upsizing TV is probably a good thing with the elderly. DP have an incredibly small one that you almost need to use a telescope to watch. With failing sight, it's not great to be watching on such as small screen.

OP you can look in The Lady magazine and get private carers who are self employed.
That'll cost you a lot less than £2000 a week.

My aunty was a bit like this before she passed away, plenty of money and happy to spend it but she was in poor health so we all accepted she couldn’t take the money with her and it made her happy.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned as there’s so many posts but hoarding can also create problems. If there’s stuff everywhere, it can delay hospital discharge and it poses a fire risk. Plus if you can’t find your stuff you’ll buy more which perpetuates the problem.

Could you encourage her to think about a luxury supported living complex? Some of them have salons onsite so they’re a lovely experience but the care costs can be lower because it’s shared across the site. They also have quite a lot of activities which may divert your mum for spending!

I’d also forecast her baseline costs against the money she has, based on her living to 100. That will give a maximum spend per year and a budget to stick to, you could convey this to carers too so they understand the situation.

Respectfully, this is your mother's money. If she wishes to spend it, you can't stop her.

Respectfully, DM has dementia and this is bollocks.

As PoA OP is fully responsible for her mother’s money and and she will have to show that she has managed her DM’s money responsibly and to her benefit.

Can these type of chairs be hired?

Do you have POA? I hope so! You need to invoke it, and let the carer have access to the money she needs to look after DM in comfort, but no more. Sounds like DM is no longer capable of running her own financial affairs and you need to take control.

I would also be concerned about this carer. This happened to an elderly man I knew - he had no close family and no POA, but mild forgetfulness rather than diagnosed dementia so there was no court order to invoke or anything and no one really in a position to raise the alarm. He started spending crazy money on himself, on friends and on the carer - gifts of hundreds of pounds cash here there and everywhere, a new car for the carer, buying expensive tech then giving it away a few days later, holidays and meals out at expensive London restaurants, really living the highlife. Suffice to say, it got very messy!