DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

If she continues to gain weight at this speed a made to measure bespoke chair may not be the right size anyway when it arrives , good luck getting an ot visit and a new care agency, it will put your mind at rest.

*Once I had POA I'd find a reason to get your mum into a good care home (a posh swanky one would be good) for 2-4 weeks respite care. Maybe you say the house needs to have major work (roofing work, new heating system) and suggest a break for her while it's done. Hope that she loves 'hotel life' — which is what my elderly aunt called the care home experience. If necessary, buy in a carer to visit the nursing home and do your mum's nails a couple of times a week or take her out on trips, to ensure that she's has a happy experience.
With luck your mother may decide the care home is where she wants to be.

I'm sure you'll attract the 'it's her money, she can do what she wants with it' brigade. Ignore. In her heydey she would have agreed with you that the money should be conserved, not wasted. Ask yourself what your mum would have wanted when she was 40, 50, 60 and base your decisions on that.*

All of this would be likely to be deemed as curtailing DM’s freedom and as such would be breaching her human rights. Having an LPA doesn’t confer the attorney with the right to make decisions on behalf of the donor without their agreement if they are in any way able to participate in decisions about their care. The decision shouldn’t be based on what the attorney thinks the donor may have wanted when they were younger - they have a responsibility to do their best to act in accordance with what they want now.

Honestly, I'd look at homes. My nan has dementia. She has no idea who we are anymore. She's in a home. She has company, entertainment (they have a singer and a pianistcome in), a hairdresser comes once a week as does a nail technician, all her meals are provided, the doctor comes into the home as well. She is actually so much happier. She used to have her own apartment, inside the home, but as her needs got higher and her condition got worse it becomes unsafe. Having access to cooking facilities was dangerous for her. She now has a bedroom and bathroom. I think for the money your spending you could get 24 hour care with everything included. Nans is 2k a week but it's in central London.

Also peoples dementia can be masked while they are in their own home and routines. I was shocked at how bad my dads dementia was when he had to move out of his home.

Valleyofthedollymix · Yesterday 15:55

@mrsm43s I see your point but it just feels incredibly wasteful and consumerist. Like, technically I could afford to fly first class, but I never would because it's a waste of money and I'd rather spend it on my children or give it to charity. And yes it is her money, but money she's inherited and I don't think her hardworking ancestors would want it pissed away like this”

So, this is about inheritance?

OMG, I've just seen that the carer has your DM's bank card. This is not on and a really good carer wouldn't want to take the risk of being accused of financial abuse or fraud. This agency she works for should be horrified.

It's time to step in a sort this mess out.

All good points. But even with DM’s LPA the OP can’t make the decision about full time care without DM’s participation. Capacity isn’t easily defined and the mental health act underpinning LPA’s states that as far as possible the donor should be involved in any decisions made on their behalf. So unless DM agrees to go into care, or it’s deemed necessary for her own safety by a medical professional, she can’t be forced.

I had POA for an elderly aunt for 18 years. I invoked it when she was diagnosed with dementia and had to organise everything for her until she died aged 99. I know how one starts with what looks like a huge sum of money and how terrifying it is, a few years down the line, to see how little there is left. IME well-looked after dementia patients can go on for a very long time. If she doesn't have a history of cancer or heart disease and her dementia is in its relatively early stages, I think you are wise to work on the basis that you're in this for at least another 10-15 years.

In your shoes I'd invoke the POA now and get more involved myself. I know you don't want to, but it's necessary. Give the carer a budget and make it clear that any extra spending needs are to be run by you. Set a budget for weekly shopping/ establish a weekly menu that will allow a few treats but not a life of smoked salmon and fillet steak. Have a weekly allowance for extras and treats. Perhaps you could do an online shopping order each week? I had to sack one of my aunt's early carers who ran up regular bills of £20+ at the fishmonger each week buying crab and prawns — which my aunt didn't eat...

Is the carer seeing your mother's bank statements and other financial paperwork when it's delivered to your mum's home? That needs to stop and everything needs to go to you so you can manage it. Your mother no longer has the capacity. Your mum's undergone a major change in personality from parsimony to being a big spender. This is not uncommon: that's why companies can sell chairs costing £4.5k to the elderly. Is the carer going to get a cut of the £2+k profit the salesman makes on each overpriced chair, I wonder?

I would contact the agency and ask what their policy on carers facilitating clients to spend unnecessarily is and take it from there. It's the carer's job to find ways of not going along with buying six cashmere jumpers at a time. She is caring for someone with dementia and that often requires saying no and holding a firm line.

Once I had POA I'd find a reason to get your mum into a good care home (a posh swanky one would be good) for 2-4 weeks respite care. Maybe you say the house needs to have major work (roofing work, new heating system) and suggest a break for her while it's done. Hope that she loves 'hotel life' — which is what my elderly aunt called the care home experience. If necessary, buy in a carer to visit the nursing home and do your mum's nails a couple of times a week or take her out on trips, to ensure that she's has a happy experience.
With luck your mother may decide the care home is where she wants to be.

I'm sure you'll attract the 'it's her money, she can do what she wants with it' brigade. Ignore. In her heydey she would have agreed with you that the money should be conserved, not wasted. Ask yourself what your mum would have wanted when she was 40, 50, 60 and base your decisions on that.

It is not the carers job to withhold food from the OPs mum. She can discourage over eating, but she has no authority to say you can't have that food.

Well no, she asked the OP to buy the recliner. But my post was really making the point to the other poster that you can’t simply sack someone because you suspect financial abuse - which this clearly isn’t because the OP has oversight of all purchases and the carer is not taking anything for herself. But she clearly needs boundaries setting because she’s indulging DM in wasting money. With her DM’s LPA the OP has the authority to change the way DM’s money is accessed, and maybe impose a spending limit, because at the end of the day it’s she who is responsible for making sure that money is being spent wisely, not the carer.

What I mean is - he paid £1000 pounds that was a lot of money for him.
It was a lovely chair and suited his needs but I struggled to understand why it was so expensive - dad's chair was cheap compared to what OP mum has paid.
It is a lot of money for elderly to pay out - why are they so expensive ?

We got my late fil one free off Facebook marketplace and it was so heavy!
I would get the OT round to see what help your dm needs. They might suggest a comfortable armchair with risers added to the legs to make it higher. Both my dds have mobility issues and one of our sofas have them on to make it easier for them to sit down and stand up.
Would working out how much your dm had to spend a year if she, say, lived to 100? to give her a bit of an idea how much she can spend a year. I know she has dementia, but would it help with stopping all the black marks against you stopping her spending?
I think a chat with the carer is in need, especially with regards to her food shop and the amount of weight she is putting on. They sound like they have got very comfortable in their position, and obviously have a good relationship with your dm, but it sounds like they are forgetting they are working and are meant to be helping your dm with making her life easier.

It's not buy once. They break. Then she buys another. Bitter experience.

I agree with everything @Noped says. It’s so difficult to accept that the mother you used to know is no longer here with you. Dementia has changed her personality and the way she thinks forever. Unfortunately, she will only decline further and you need to accept this is only get worse.

Your Mum needs a different carer as this one is not suitable. No decent care assistant would let their client put on so much extra weight. It’s very bad that she’s been allowed to binge eat and go up four dress sizes! She doesn’t need a 4k chair or cashmere jumpers. She would benefit far more from wearing cheaper easy care clothing that can just be chucked into a washing machine and a sturdy winged arm chair that encourages her to stay mobile. It’s terrible that the carer invited a salesperson into your mother’s home when she is so vulnerable.

I would strongly ask you to consider whether your DM would be better off in a good nursing home. I would look for one with a specialist dementia unit available. My MIL lived in a dementia unit for 10 years and received really excellent care. She would not have had such a good quality of life or lived as long if she had remained at home.

Depends at what stage the dementia was diagnosed. Depends on the type of dementia. Depends on physical health. Some dementia patients can last a long time if their physical health is reasonable.

Alzheimer’s patients can live on average 3-11 years after diagnosis. My aunt live for 15. My father was diagnosed 7 years ago, he’s still going and he has heart failure! He’s expected to live another 18 months and it may be more.

OP’s mother could well live for another 10 years. And at 100k a year that will cost a million just in care fees not taking inflation into account.

Also, I would not spend that amount of money without a proper seating assessment by a properly qualified OT

Absolutely not. The OT will also be able to provide all kinds of equipment for your mother, and a good deal of advice. And it's a good idea to get on their radar, because later on you'll need a hospital bed etc.

It's financial abuse and a safeguarding issue. It needs to be escalated to the agency. If you have PaA controls need to be introduced regarding spending. I second the second hand suggestion for a similar chair to see how she gets on with it.

is the carer the same size as your mother?

These chairs are a bloody extortion racket for desperate, old, vulnerable people who have some cash - in some cases not much at all.

my fil’s riser recliner was obtained by an NHS person somehow. My step father couldn’t get his via the NHS (not sure why, he was in every bit as bad condition as fil) and he paid for a bespoke one, which had 2 motors as he was tall and built. Even that was less than your £4.5k. I think it was 3 thousand and soemthign last year. Still a massive cost, but your mother’s seems extreme.

I don’t think you are money grabbing at all. It’s really stressful dealing with elderly parents and it’s also terrible when they die (both I mentioned above are dead). Neither were “rich” but both had been so careful their whole lives. Afraid to have lights on for fear of the cost so say in the dark. That kind of thing. So you kind of know that spending huge amounts is not something they would do unless vulnerable, desperate, losing faculties etc.

really depressing

On a practical note, a fabric chair is a disaster from a hygiene perspective. If you look on line at pre-owned chairs, very often you will see a large stain in the centre of the seat. Incontinence, while not inevitable, becomes much more likely as a person ages. As someone with extensive experience in care homes-choose leather or another wipeable fabric. Also, I would not spend that amount of money without a proper seating assessment by a properly qualified OT.

........but at 82, if she is in good physical health the woman could easily have another 10, 15, even 20 years ahead of her

Probably not more than five to seven, actually.
She has a dementia diagnosis.

One point I would make about the recliner. While I’m not sure how long a dementia patient will be able to use the controls if ever, it does make it easier for the carer to help her out of the chair.

The recliner helps ejects the patient from the chair, and that postpones having to get a hoist. There are certain things that carers are not supposed to do as it can result in back injury and hauling people out of chairs is one of them.

Look for one that's second hand/reconditioned. Some places actually hire them out as well.

OP says the carer facilitates her mother’s purchases of other things as her mother can’t use her bank card, deal with the bank, use the Internet or her mobile. The carer “tends to run by us” the purchases. She will tell them she has bought some new trousers or the recliner.

That’s not ok.

The motors for riser recliners are, unfortunately, expensive. We went to one of the showrooms of this company https://www.hslchairs.com/?&epssource=google&epsmedium=cpc&epscampaign=&epscontent=&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0r2unsGHhAMVJJJQBh1NAw37EAAYASAAEgKcgvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds just for electric recliners and were pretty impressed by them, although in the end we bought elsewhere. A chair properly adjusted for her height and with arms to push up on may be adequate.

Because all of tis stuff piled up (as it eventually will, even in a large house) will encourage vermin?

And will have to be gone through and disposed of after her death?

And could be disguising inappropriate personal spending by a dishonest carer? (BTW - Not saying it is - just that it could.)

And because someone with dementia isn't the best person to be making the spending decisions?

OP isn't saying her DM shouldn't have a chair - just that it may nor be what she needs, and if she does need one this ay not be the right one for her as she hasn't been assessed.

Perhaps the carer encourages the wild shopping because it makes the DM easier to manage - if she goes nuts with her family, she might be a nightmare with staff if she doesn't get her own way.

It may be that the "tight' one was OP's DF and now he's gone her DM is making up for lost years, but at 82, if she is in good physical health the woman could easily have another 10, 15, even 20 years ahead of her. And the money won't last forever, even with substantial pension topping it up.