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Elderly parents
Original poster

Continuing my dad's wish to pay uni tuition fees for his grandkids

39 replies

falstaff1980 · 03/01/2024 15:46

My father had been doing this the last few years, paying the £9250 into a 5-year-fixed account for my kids each September, the intention being that when they matured my (by-then mid-twenties) kids could either pay off the tuition fees or use the money for some other sensible purpose ("not buying an expensive car" my dad said specifically to them), I think he had in mind a deposit for a first house/flat.

Sadly my dad was ill and passed away last September. My mother said she still wants to continue paying this (my two younger kids have 1 year, and 2 years left at uni respectively, the eldest graduated last year and so got the whole 3 years of fees).

The reasons I'm hesitating on this is:

  1. My mother has MCI, possibly early stage dementia, I have an LPA, but feel uncomfortable paying this from her account when I know my mother is no longer able to remember how much money she has. If she was 100% well I'd leave it to her to sort out with my kids.
  2. She might need that money herself for care costs, she has over £200k in savings (plus the house she owns and lives in), and since she's already needing some low-level care, giving away nearly £30k could be seen as deprivation of assets.
  3. I don't know how this will go down with my sister, who has no children and has not been well herself. I'm not even sure she knew that our dad had been doing this before, it was something he sorted out direct with my kids.

Any thoughts and opinions welcome.

OP posts:
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JoyousPinkPeer · 08/07/2024 21:15

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MereDintofPandiculation · 05/01/2024 16:40

I wonder what LAs think of a variation of a will whereby you deprive yourself of an inheritance or part of one that would otherwise have come to you?

theresnolimits · 05/01/2024 12:04

This is a minefield and I think you’re right to hold off.

Inheritance tax not going to be an issue as your mum gets 2x allowance.

One option is to give an inheritance now - so mum allows a variation of the will and gives a ‘gift’ from Dad of £35000 from her inheritance. But anyone likely to be affected (ie your sister) has to agree and I think I’d be uncomfortable asking.

In the end that money is for mum’s well being and should be ring fenced for her. Your children have had enormous benefit already.

Original poster
falstaff1980 · 05/01/2024 11:56

Thanks everyone, based on all the comments I've decided not to do this, best I can do is try to help them myself when they get to the age where these fixed-interest accounts would have matured.

This link was helpful about gift giving for attorneys:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/giving-gifts-a-guide-for-deputies-and-attorneys/opg2-giving-gifts-for-someone-else-web-version

It just doesn't feel right to do this given my mother's state. It would be different if she was remembering she hadn't done this, and was pro-actively asking me to help her do the bank transfers, and also telling my sister herself that she wanted to do this.

As for paying off the fees, yep, I looked at moneysavingexpert in 2019 when my dad announced he wanted to pay their tuition fees, and explained to him that putting the money in fixed term accounts would be better.

OP posts:
MereDintofPandiculation · 05/01/2024 11:45

RomeoOscarXrayXray · 04/01/2024 22:35

Related to inheritance tax specifically

www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/gifts#:~:text=Annual%20exemption,£3%2C000%20between%20several%20people.

But that’s only if they are likely to run into IHT. She has a £325k allowance, plus any of her husband’s allowance that he didn’t use, plus more if main residence is left to children.

MereDintofPandiculation · 05/01/2024 11:39

Jessbow · 04/01/2024 10:37

£200k, this would be if she needs about 6-8 years care.

in your dreams! Residential care is currently about 1400 a WEEK It wont get cheaper either

So that 200k will last about 2 1/2 years at current rate

Residential care is about £50k a year, she has £200k in savings as well as the house value. In addition she has her pension, and as a self funder should receive another £5k in higher rate attendance allowance. So not sure about your maths.

countrygirl99 · 05/01/2024 11:35

We weren't even looking at nursing and nothing was that cheap

MereDintofPandiculation · 05/01/2024 11:32

Velvian · 04/01/2024 21:30

@MereDintofPandiculation , nursing. If assessed as eligible for nursing care under the CHC checklist, the home receives funded nursing care from the NHS in addition to the private fees. Don't forget that self funders in residential and nursing care are also entitled to higher rate Attendance Allowance from the DWP.

£1k a week is quite cheap for nursing, I think?

DontBeAPrickDarren · 04/01/2024 23:47

MereDintofPandiculation · 04/01/2024 22:26

I wasn't talking about CHC funding, I was talking about NHS funded nuring care. Do they both use the same checklist?

Show quote history

Yes, pretty sure they do

RomeoOscarXrayXray · 04/01/2024 22:35

Related to inheritance tax specifically

www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/gifts#:~:text=Annual%20exemption,£3%2C000%20between%20several%20people.

RomeoOscarXrayXray · 04/01/2024 22:34

There's a tax implication for the person who gives the gifts

Each individual only has £3,000 pa total (IIRC) that they can give with no tax concerns.

Are you aware of this?

Scarletttulips · 04/01/2024 22:31

I would also put the money in their accounts.

MereDintofPandiculation · 04/01/2024 22:26

Velvian · 04/01/2024 21:30

@MereDintofPandiculation , nursing. If assessed as eligible for nursing care under the CHC checklist, the home receives funded nursing care from the NHS in addition to the private fees. Don't forget that self funders in residential and nursing care are also entitled to higher rate Attendance Allowance from the DWP.

I wasn't talking about CHC funding, I was talking about NHS funded nuring care. Do they both use the same checklist?

Velvian · 04/01/2024 21:30

@MereDintofPandiculation , nursing. If assessed as eligible for nursing care under the CHC checklist, the home receives funded nursing care from the NHS in addition to the private fees. Don't forget that self funders in residential and nursing care are also entitled to higher rate Attendance Allowance from the DWP.

MereDintofPandiculation · 04/01/2024 20:53

Velvian · 04/01/2024 15:47

@Jessbow , you're forgetting the house and OP's mum's income in addition to this. In my LA, £1400 is near the top end of weekly fees. I would say the average self funding rate is around £1k weekly where I am.

Is that for care home or for nursing home?

MereDintofPandiculation · 04/01/2024 20:53

I understand people saying Martin Lewis recommends checking out carefully whether it’s worth paying off a student loan but in some circumstances it is. Yes, and that’s what Martin Lewis says.

Cookerhood · 04/01/2024 16:33

Velvian · 04/01/2024 15:47

@Jessbow , you're forgetting the house and OP's mum's income in addition to this. In my LA, £1400 is near the top end of weekly fees. I would say the average self funding rate is around £1k weekly where I am.

£1800 5 years ago here (nursing care).

DontBeAPrickDarren · 04/01/2024 16:27

Deprivation of assets is unlikely to be an issue because there is an established pattern of giving. Page 8 here has some advice https://www.lgo.org.uk/assets/attach/6292/DoA-F.pdf

https://www.lgo.org.uk/assets/attach/6292/DoA-F.pdf

CannaeSayOwt · 04/01/2024 16:23

I usually don’t post but spotted this and had to reply. I fell foul of this with my grandmother. She had been gifting my nephew money each year for school fees and I continued it under LPA but you cannot make large gifts even if it’s continuing a prior pattern. Have a look at the rules around gifting with an LPA. It’s complex but we ended up in a mess over it and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone else.

Dacadactyl · 04/01/2024 16:23

I'd carry on, but I would definitely tell my sister.

caringcarer · 04/01/2024 16:19

If your parents always had a good relationship with all his DGC They will have brought your parents much joy and pleasure over the years. If your Mum is in agreement now I'd transfer the £36k now whilst you still think she knows about DGC uni fees and understands. Then going forward if her MH declines you won't have to do it without her knowledge/consent. It sounds as if your Mum has plenty of money left to live on and if in the future she has to sell her house to pay for her care her savings and house would pay for it for 5 or 6 years plus she would still be getting her pension coming in. If you think she won't need to go into a home for at least a year then that would take you up to 7 years. She might not even live that long. If this was your Dad's wishes I'd stick to it.

countrygirl99 · 04/01/2024 16:06

Velvian · 04/01/2024 15:47

@Jessbow , you're forgetting the house and OP's mum's income in addition to this. In my LA, £1400 is near the top end of weekly fees. I would say the average self funding rate is around £1k weekly where I am.

When we were looking 9 months ago the lowest was £1200 but £1400 was typical. There were plenty that were more expensive than that. Not in a particularly affluent or expensive area.

Velvian · 04/01/2024 15:47

@Jessbow , you're forgetting the house and OP's mum's income in addition to this. In my LA, £1400 is near the top end of weekly fees. I would say the average self funding rate is around £1k weekly where I am.

JussathoB · 04/01/2024 15:28

I would carry it on. DF clearly wished for all the children to receive the same. Who knows, DM may well have known about this and agreed, or she might even have suggested it in the first place.
if your sister has no children, this system was possibly your DF’s gift to his grandchildren by you, so that his inheritance in his will would go to his wife and then be split between you and your sister.
I understand people saying Martin Lewis recommends checking out carefully whether it’s worth paying off a student loan but in some circumstances it is.

Spirallingdownwards · 04/01/2024 15:10

Yes it is often better to repay now. Much more so than before.

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