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Elderly parents

This is going to sound so mercenary, but...

78 replies

PinkFlamingoDance · 02/01/2024 22:11

It is unavoidable that parent goes into more suitable accommodation and sells their place. They need to be safer and several carers each day isn't cutting it.

I'm all for residential accommodation but this will mean any assets will be spent on the fees up to £23,250.

As far as I understand £3k can be gifted each year without breaking any laws. Is this correct?

I have a sibling so that would be £3k each per year.

I had an email from solicitor today about house sale and get on well with him so could ask him to check this isn't illegal. Thanks!

OP posts:
countrygirl99 · 03/01/2024 11:21

@MereDintofPandiculation a lot of the help isn't medical though. Someone with cancer/heart disease etc isn't provided with a cleaner, shopping help, someone to chat to or someone to keep an eye on their admin however incapable they are of dealing with it. The medical needs are covered it's the rest that's a big problem. We would all be happy with a government that covered the lot but the majority will vote for tax cuts and therein lies a lot of the problem. So either the individual pays where they can or we impose on younger generations, possibly for decades.

heartofglass23 · 03/01/2024 11:18

Have they even had an assessment from the older peoples team that they need residential care?

You need to get this first.

There may be other options to allow them to remain in the community for as long as possible.

Do they go to full time day care?

Have telecare alarms fitted in the home?

Tried live in care?

Councils won't fund residential care unless they assess it as necessary.

You can self pay if you want but if your assets run out then social work say they don't meet their criteria they can be kicked out of their residential home!

The average life expectancy of a care home resident is 2 years so you are likely to still be left with around £100k inheritance which is well under the inheritance tax threshold anyway.

Also make sure they are claiming everything inc attendance allowance/ carers allowance/ pension credit etc.

Ask CAB for benefits advice.

MereDintofPandiculation · 03/01/2024 11:08

countrygirl99 · 03/01/2024 04:00

Of course everyone would prefer that. Just as they'd prefer to pay hardly any tax and still have well funded freely available public services.

At least there is some attempt to share around the cost of public services. The way we fund social services is akin to saying “you have cancer? Well, you can’t expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab while you’ve got savings to pay for your treatment”

MereDintofPandiculation · 03/01/2024 11:05

I find the older generation would very much prefer that they have at least the family home to leave to their children, rather than their life savings used up and house sold off to pay for care fees. Especially when they no longer wish to be alive. If the state is going to keep me alive after I’ve had enough, the state should damned well pay for it.

MereDintofPandiculation · 03/01/2024 11:03

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 02/01/2024 22:17

Do they have capacity? If not I don't think you can decide for you and your sibling to get 3k a year each.

If they’ve been getting £3000k a year, then you can continue that if it’s the parent’s wish and they can afford to do so. But if they have a foreseeable need for care, and don’t have enough separate funds to cover it, then it’s likely to be regarded as deprivation of assets, and the LA will carry out the financial assessment as if they still had the money.

what he can do is apply for Attendance Allowance, provided he’s receiving no LA finance for the care home. If he qualifies for the night time rate, then it’s about £100 a week, which is more than the £3000 (total not per person) a year that is disregarded fir inheritance tax.

Mum5net · 03/01/2024 10:44

Rather than ask your solicitor, ask the accounts team at your local council’s Social Work team if they allow for one payment of £3000 per year as allowable gifts in their calculations.
They are the ones who matter.
(And when you have the conversation don’t be emotional about how you need the funds.)
In previous years some Councils granted this but I think the system has tightened up and they all take the same view, but it is worth asking, nonetheless.

RaininSummer · 03/01/2024 07:50

I didn't just mean from a moral point of view actually as it would be seen as deliberately depriving the person of assets so can be reclaimed from those receiving the gift I think.

countrygirl99 · 03/01/2024 04:00

Peoplemakemedespair · 02/01/2024 23:08

As a carer I can say I’ve only ever seen this opinion on mn. I find the older generation would very much prefer that they have at least the family home to leave to their children, rather than their life savings used up and house sold off to pay for care fees. And I don’t blame them one bit because I’ll be doing the same.

Of course everyone would prefer that. Just as they'd prefer to pay hardly any tax and still have well funded freely available public services.

PinkFlamingoDance · 02/01/2024 23:21

Lots to consider - I haven't been able to work full time over past few years due to care commitments.

Another thing they do is dial 999 if they can't get hold of me. Last thing you want is paramedics turn up when you're trying to have a cup of tea and watch a film in peace. I have to be polite but get them out of the door as soon as I can. It's attention seeking.

I'll ask solicitor if £3k per year is fine shared between me and sibling. I have loads of receipts of what I've bought parent anyway.

I do think they're daft trying to shove £50k onto me, if you go into residential care then most of the money doesn't belong to you anymore.

OP posts:
Sunbird24 · 02/01/2024 23:17

OP it doesn’t sound like their estate is going to meet the IHT threshold when the time comes, even before care fees start being paid, so that doesn’t need to be a consideration. (The threshold is £325k, and can go up to £500k if you leave your home to your children)

caringcarer · 02/01/2024 23:17

2024please · 02/01/2024 23:02

I think it's £3K in total that can be gifted each year, not £3K each.

Yes it is £3k per year, not per person. I gift £3k between my 3 DC so they get £500 each twice a year.
If your Dad needs to go into a care home and the house is sold and he gifts you and/or your sister money then the council will claim 'deprivation of assets'. They will make you repay the money if your Dad needs care taking his assets down below £23,250.

LikeIDontExist · 02/01/2024 23:12

If they haven’t been giving you £3k a year before now, it will be seen as unreasonable to suddenly start.

HamBone · 02/01/2024 23:11

They can legally gift more than £3K but it’ll be liable for inheritance tax if they don’t survive at least seven years. Plus you’ve got to consider deprivation of assets if their remaining funds run out.

Def. discuss with the solicitor before letting them gift you anything.

unsync · 02/01/2024 23:10

It's £3k total each year, not £3k each per year. You can roll the previous year if it was unused, so potential of £6k in the first year.

Gifts from income can be made if it does not impact on standard of living. So if for instance they have a monthly income of £4k, but monthly costs for everything are £2k, they can gift the surplus £2k. However, if the money is needed for care, this route would not be open to you. You also need to keep fairly stringent records for HMRC, otherwise they could potentially include it for IHT.

Any house maintenance / improvements/ alterations should come from capital, not income. If there is a medical diagnosis that means alterations are needed (accessibility alterations, stairlift, wet room etc) you can get them zero rated for VAT.

StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 02/01/2024 23:09

Peoplemakemedespair · 02/01/2024 23:08

As a carer I can say I’ve only ever seen this opinion on mn. I find the older generation would very much prefer that they have at least the family home to leave to their children, rather than their life savings used up and house sold off to pay for care fees. And I don’t blame them one bit because I’ll be doing the same.

Especially when often their adult children may have given up paid work or cut down on it in order to keep them at home as long as possible.

Peoplemakemedespair · 02/01/2024 23:08

RaininSummer · 02/01/2024 22:30

If they need to pay for care I don't think they should be giving any money away.

As a carer I can say I’ve only ever seen this opinion on mn. I find the older generation would very much prefer that they have at least the family home to leave to their children, rather than their life savings used up and house sold off to pay for care fees. And I don’t blame them one bit because I’ll be doing the same.

2024please · 02/01/2024 23:02

I think it's £3K in total that can be gifted each year, not £3K each.

PinkFlamingoDance · 02/01/2024 22:44

Soontobe60 · 02/01/2024 22:33

Just out of interest, how much equity will there be when the house is sold?

It's a small place, £150k. I really don't want to violate laws so I'll speak to Mr Solicitor.

He emailed a doc today which I haven't read yet but I'll call him tomorrow. He is actually older than my parent which surprised me a bit but he said he can't stand daytime TV. He was also surprised it was assigned to him. It's pretty straightforward, just savings and property.

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 02/01/2024 22:33

Just out of interest, how much equity will there be when the house is sold?

RaininSummer · 02/01/2024 22:30

If they need to pay for care I don't think they should be giving any money away.

PinkFlamingoDance · 02/01/2024 22:29

Thanks by the way for responses.

OP posts:
PinkFlamingoDance · 02/01/2024 22:28

Oh drat, I knew this was going to be complicated! Yes they have capacity and are fine with £3k each per year but I don't want to get into hot water.

They are a bit clueless and are trying to gift me much more than that and I keep having to say it's not allowed.

Solicitor it is.

OP posts:
Thelondonone · 02/01/2024 22:19

You can’t do it, sorry but not mercenary!

dickdarstardlymuttley · 02/01/2024 22:18

It doesn't sound mercenary, it is.

RosesAndHellebores · 02/01/2024 22:17

Ask the solicitor's advice.