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Elderly parents

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Wineisnottheanswer · 07/01/2024 15:02

I saw your other thread. Made perfect sense. People were been obtuse or as outside of their experience can’t see further than end of own nose

TheShellBeach · 07/01/2024 15:00

JellyWellyBoots · 07/01/2024 14:56

Can I come?

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Me too!

JellyWellyBoots · 07/01/2024 14:56

StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 07/01/2024 12:22

I tried posting another thread but people apparently couldn't clock on to what I was talking about. I got bored of trying to explain myself. Despite posting in elderly parents not AIBU or chat (which I never go on)

so.. what will you do in your fantasises (or hopefully reality) when your caring responsibilities finally end ?

im going to pack Dd and Dh off on holiday for 2 weeks if she is still living at home so I can enjoy the luxury of 2 weeks in my home on my own with nobody wanting my attention/dinner/lifts/deal with medical dramas etc etc. I'm going to eat sandwiches and cheese & biscuits and not cook a single thing.
im going to buy a harp and learn to play it

Edited

Can I come?

EmotionalBlackmail · 07/01/2024 14:10

I can't help wondering what all this prescribing of antibiotics is doing for antibiotic resistance.

And also frustrated as when I needed some I had to wait ages for a GP phone and then in person appointment and it was really hard to get them!

Tara336 · 07/01/2024 13:45

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew I saw that other thread I'm sure some posters are deliberately difficult! I think what I'd do is take some time to be with my DD and DH as I feel like the only time I've had especially with DD has been centered around sorting things for DF and DM. Just a lovely weekend somewhere calm and peaceful with them both, no phones or emails and just be

RescueRespect · 07/01/2024 13:37

JellyWellyBoots · 05/01/2024 23:58

I think I've carried on with it because no one else will have him, I feel so under appreciated. Every morning when I go downstairs he's up & ready to give me a list of things he needs to do which basically means I'll have to do it. Within 5 minutes all I want to do is crawl back into bed.

No one talks about the admin side of things either, the constant phone calls all day everyday. The emails, appointments, the finances, the paperwork, the funeral arrangements, the will. Sometimes while im at work I get a stream of calls and emails from the nurses or dad himself who needs me to pop into the shop on my way back.

He's bringing more and more stuff into the house, he's now on about having adaptations made to make life easier for him, I said I don't want people coming in and drilling holes in my walls.

He brought his dog here a few weeks ago, I wasn't going to deny a dying man his best friend, but honest to god im finding hair everywhere, hoovering every single day, I can't get rid of the smell no matter how much febreeze I use. It just doesn't smell like home anymore.

I got shouted at yesterday for not immediately leaving the house to pick up yet more prescribed medication, I see the pharmacy more than I see any of my friends.

He may be unwell but he's always been unreasonable, expects so much of me & gives very little back. If I dare point out he's left the toilet seat up for the millionth time it wasn't his fault or he has some excuse.

He's always complaining he's cold, i can't open any windows half the time to air out the smell.

I've given up on cleaning, I've always prided myself on having a clean and tidy house. It's near impossible to keep on top of it now.

My favourite time of day is bedtime, I just want to be asleep all the time as that's the only time my head doesn't feel like it's about to explode. Even trying to have a conversation is difficult because his hearing is so bad. Won't wear hearing aids because they are bad quality.
I lay in bed every night listening to constant coughing and clearing his throat, snoring, it's so damn LOUD.

The list is endless.

He just doesn't see the impact this has had on us, he's been telling people he 'didn't realise how much of a burden he was to me' & has made it clear he's not happy about going into respite because he's quite comfortable here.

It's ruining the last few months we have together, I don't want to remember it like this.

This made me so frustrated and angry to read. As have many posts here.

I am so sorry. Ugh. There has to be a better way.

I too have dead parent envy. And our ‘journey’ is only just starting.

I wish you could get a break, I really do.

RescueRespect · 07/01/2024 13:04

StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 03/01/2024 16:00

this was another bit of my horoscope courtesy of Glamour magazine

"A career goal or dream that involves publishing, public speaking or sharing information could see Pisces strike gold in 2024. Allow yourself to take a passion project more seriously and you might even see the magic of manifestation in action."

I was thinking maybe that was some piano goals but maybe it's telling me that I should do something with that seed in the back of my mind about writing a diary of mid life sandwich woman

That’s a great title just there.

Original poster
StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 07/01/2024 12:54

What bugs me @choux is that so much is rationed for younger, healthier people and they moan on about AB resistance yet the very frail, sick elderly get ABs like sweets despite it merely prolonging a fairly grim existence !

OP posts:
Choux · 07/01/2024 12:51

This is what I was referring to - it was a scoring system taking into account age, frailty and co-morbidities to determine how to allocate ventilators when they were scarce.

Antibiotics of course are not scarce but I don't see why something similar couldn't be in place to determine a point at which it's medically and morally acceptable to withdraw prescription of antibiotics or at least force doctors to discuss with family if they want the antibiotics prescribed.

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/04/14/chart-shows-likely-moved-intensive-care-nhs-treatment-12553121/amp/

Original poster
StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 07/01/2024 12:46

@Choux absolutely the conversation around medical intervention needs to move away from "can we" with the inevitable answer being "yes" to "should we"

The issue is how do you quantify it and how do you deal with relations that aren't happy with the clinical decision. "Playing God" is often touted although that is a straw man argument imo. You start playing god the minute you intervene in the natural course of things by prescribing ABs or giving intrusive medical treatments. So if god had had their way that person would have been dead already.

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 07/01/2024 12:35

Metoo15 · 07/01/2024 11:58

TheShellBeach I’m here! Think I’ve posted before but my weary brain can’t remember. Thanks for the introduction. So many poor folk like me trying to make sense of everything it’s just too much.
I’ve learned so much since yesterday it’s incredible. I’m here from my thread,” mum in a care home temporarily “sorry can’t link it. I’ve got lots of reading to do.

Hi @Metoo15 and welcome!

Here's a link to your thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/4978546-mum-in-care-home-temporarily

Choux · 07/01/2024 12:34

I argued that the DNAR (in my mind) meant that measures to treat infections should not be used - but the GP and carers did not agree. I recall one of them (a nun) telling me that because antibiotics were available, it was a dereliction of duty not to administer them.

And after my last post I read this. I imagine a nun is a fervent believer in the sanctity of life and trying to preserve it no matter how poor the QOL. I am now very thankful my mum is not in a religious care home.

I think DNAR is purely about what happens after cardiac arrest.

I am gearing up that I may have a future battle trying to have my mum NOT treated for something. This currently involves building up a good relationship with the care home manager so she knows I AM a caring daughter and that I have mum's interests at heart. Fear of being judged when I say 'don't treat her pneumonia'.

Both my parents got / are getting great treatment when they needed it. But taking them to appointments and sorting out home GP nurse visits, District Nurses and Intensive Home Support Services was a revelation as to the proportion of NHS funding which must go on the over 70s. It can't go on indefinitely - in my opinion there needs to be some kind of link between a measurable QOL and what is still appropriate treatment. A bit like how they were going to decide who would get a ventilator in wave 1 of Covid.

Metoo15 · 07/01/2024 12:31

Kayemm. So sorry to hear what your mum and you are going through. It makes you wonder what would have happened if you hadn’t been available. I think it’s totally unacceptable to ask you, but nothing surprises me these days.
I think Choux has a good point. Have a talk with whoever is looking after her. It’s cruel in my opinion. What would your mum want ? I hope you feel better soon too.

Kendodd · 07/01/2024 12:26

Are there any, in real life, groups where these sort of conversations can be had? I get the impression that if anyone dared express these thoughts out loud they'd be completely vilified. The bottom line is that we are wishing people dead. But dead for everybody's benefit (well, I suppose with the exception of share holders/executives in drug companies).

Original poster
StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 07/01/2024 12:22

I tried posting another thread but people apparently couldn't clock on to what I was talking about. I got bored of trying to explain myself. Despite posting in elderly parents not AIBU or chat (which I never go on)

so.. what will you do in your fantasises (or hopefully reality) when your caring responsibilities finally end ?

im going to pack Dd and Dh off on holiday for 2 weeks if she is still living at home so I can enjoy the luxury of 2 weeks in my home on my own with nobody wanting my attention/dinner/lifts/deal with medical dramas etc etc. I'm going to eat sandwiches and cheese & biscuits and not cook a single thing.
im going to buy a harp and learn to play it

OP posts:
Choux · 07/01/2024 12:17

Kayemm · 07/01/2024 11:29

I feel like I have found my tribe.

My mum is 96, immobile, doubly incontinent, has vascular dementia and is at present being treated for pneumonia.

I had a 37 hour wait in a and e, and earlier this week was called at 2am to sit with her and keep reinserting her oxygen tube as she was anxious and kept pulling it out. The locum refused to sedate her.

They are now sedating her and I've got a bloody chest infection.

Welcome. I hope you get some support here.

As your mum appears to have a low quality of life and possibly limited capacity are you not able to ask doctors not to treat her pneumonia? Are they really saying it's in her best interests to be cured of the pneumonia so she can soldier on declining further until.... she has a stroke or heart attack?

Sorry to be blunt about that but my mum is 91 with dementia so just a little way behind your mum. Mine still seems to have some quality of life but I want pneumonia or something else to take her before the dementia takes away all her faculties and makes her a baby. She has a DNR now and an agreement with her care home and GP and me that she would not go to hospital unless something like a broken leg which could be fixed. Otherwise she will stay at the care home and 'be kept comfortable'.

It's easier to have the conversations when she is not ill but I would certainly ask her GP what input you can have into treatment decisions and if trying to fix every issue is really what is best for her given her current health. I think sometimes drs continue because these conversations haven't been had and they need to next of kin to say it's ok to let someone go.

Metoo15 · 07/01/2024 11:58

TheShellBeach I’m here! Think I’ve posted before but my weary brain can’t remember. Thanks for the introduction. So many poor folk like me trying to make sense of everything it’s just too much.
I’ve learned so much since yesterday it’s incredible. I’m here from my thread,” mum in a care home temporarily “sorry can’t link it. I’ve got lots of reading to do.

TheShellBeach · 07/01/2024 11:41

JellyWellyBoots · 07/01/2024 11:34

I think THE worst part for me at the moment is the mess and smell. The dog makes the house smell really bad, & so does my DF. It actually makes me feel uncomfortable in my own home. I have asked so many times for him to clean up after himself but it doesn't matter because he doesn't seem to listen.

I'm exhausting myself even more by trying to keep on top of the cleaning. Every time I walk Into a room there's something there that just sets me off because it's happening so often.

Have you decided how you're going to tackle him assuming he's coming back after the respite?

TheShellBeach · 07/01/2024 11:40

My aunt had vascular dementia. She had a DNAR in place but it only specified not attempting CPR if she arrested.

She was being cared for by various people and always reacted with extreme violence and paranoia. She was 92 and doubly incontinent - screamed loudly, calling for the police, and hit, kicked and spat at her carers every time she was washed and had her pads and her nightdress changed.

Despite this, in the last two years of her life, she was given antibiotics for several UTIs and chest infections.

I argued that the DNAR (in my mind) meant that measures to treat infections should not be used - but the GP and carers did not agree. I recall one of them (a nun) telling me that because antibiotics were available, it was a dereliction of duty not to administer them.

I am sure that aunt would have died a long time before she actually did if she hadn't had so many courses of antibiotics given.

JellyWellyBoots · 07/01/2024 11:34

I think THE worst part for me at the moment is the mess and smell. The dog makes the house smell really bad, & so does my DF. It actually makes me feel uncomfortable in my own home. I have asked so many times for him to clean up after himself but it doesn't matter because he doesn't seem to listen.

I'm exhausting myself even more by trying to keep on top of the cleaning. Every time I walk Into a room there's something there that just sets me off because it's happening so often.

Original poster
StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 07/01/2024 11:31

That's outrageous @Kayemm
im sure they would have sedated if you hadn't conveniently been available .

OP posts:
Kayemm · 07/01/2024 11:29

I feel like I have found my tribe.

My mum is 96, immobile, doubly incontinent, has vascular dementia and is at present being treated for pneumonia.

I had a 37 hour wait in a and e, and earlier this week was called at 2am to sit with her and keep reinserting her oxygen tube as she was anxious and kept pulling it out. The locum refused to sedate her.

They are now sedating her and I've got a bloody chest infection.

Original poster
StiffyByngsDogBartholomew · 07/01/2024 11:25

NefretForth · 06/01/2024 22:11

Well ,MIL has completely had enough, but for religious reasons wouldn’t consider assisted suicide even if it were available. She has an advance directive and DNR and is really clear she doesn’t want any treatment beyond hydration and pain relief if she gets an infection or other health problem. But she’s from a long-lived family and has had a very healthy lifestyle, so unless she catches an infectious disease I don’t see what’s to stop her carrying on until she’s 120. I am beginning to make my own plans for suicide as soon as DD is properly launched into the world: I only feel my life has marginal value as things are and I would rather lose 10 good years than end like MIL.

I don't know what happens if, let's say one has made an advanced directive etc, if when push comes to shove the person says actually I want to be treated, I don't want to die. Can anyone say what would happen on that scenario ? I would have thought that the person would be treated regardless what they previously said

OP posts:
LarkRize · 07/01/2024 09:25

The whole situation is such a mess - but you are right @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew, when people get to that frail stage, with apparently no quality of life, they cling on even more.

My DM was moaning over Xmas about being “kept alive” and yet she unfailingly gobbles down her 20 or 30 meds every day, pesters the doctor for appointments if they don’t arrive quickly enough and is now getting an incredibly expensive procedure courtesy of the NHS which will have a doubtful effect on her QOL but which will cost a lot.

She is overtly religious, as well, and was overtly devoted to my father, and yet is so terrified of her eventual demise, despite all this and being in her late 80s, that she is also on anti-anxiety meds and ADs…