So bloody exhausted waiting for someone to die 2

@EmotionalBlackmail @Valleyofthedollymix @funnelfan

I'm also part of the childless and caring gang.

Although I have a husband he's pretty useless and not very supportive. My extended family lives abroad so aren't able to do anything although I sometimes think a phone call or email would help. I have a lovely half sister ( same Dad different Mum) who tries to be nice but I don't want to burden her as she has her own problems and we only found each other two years ago.

I try to look after my health - don't smoke or drink, eat healthy food , am not overweight, and go to the gym 3-4 times a week. My fitness is important to me as I don't want to be a burden on others or the NHS. However I do wonder if all this health stuff is worth it. I don't want to be like my Mum - a healthy person with Alzheimer's who'll live for decades because I have no other co morbidities which will kill me off.

I hate the caring burden and don't even get me started on the POA stuff which is another poisoned chalice.

I first heard about swedish death clean on mumsnet, brilliant idea. I started decluttering bit by bit ever since, selling valuable items, may buy a RV/campervan. I don't have children [hideous childhood] I have big house in countryside and land, I'm already finding several acres of garden too much in my 60's. Purchased a ground floor flat near town, everything within a mile radius including Dr and hospital, ready to move in when the time comes. I hope by then my hearing will be bad and I won't notice the town noise!
A year ago I tried to have the talk with parents in their 90's about paperwork, they refused, ended in huge argument. The shit hit the fan in November when my mum died and my dad had no idea about anything [yep I told you so] I am uber organized I just can't believe how irresponsible oldies are leaving an absolute shit show for others to deal with not to mention organizing care.
I have friends who didn't make it to 60 and friends who have no savings or plan b for old age but believe the state will look after them. It's hard to plan for the unexpected. I am as future proofed as I can be and hope for another 20+ years with mobility and marbles. Anything left will go to my 2 nieces or to pay for my care or ticket to dignitas. My only real fear of very old age is unbearable pain, that I couldn't cope with.

This was prompted by someone up thread talking about Singapore and China's policy efforts to get children to care for elderly parents. I do think there is a role for state intervention, but it should be directed at elderly people looking after themselves not at their kids. When you get a pension, you should be directed to a list of other things that should be happening - POAs, advanced care directives, suggested housing options, things to think about even if only theoretically.

I think that could be a really good idea. A meeting with some sort of social worker type person on retirement to go through all the end of life planning sorting out. I bet it would save money for the state in the long run (and stress for the family). Also, if it was done on retirement then likely for most it would come before ill heath sets in and would be an easier conversation to have.

I'm so sorry if I've upset anyone with this question, I can see it must be upsetting when you're doing so much and start to reflect on your own old age. I know that I've been thinking about what I want (and don't want) much more going through this with my parents.

I wasn't holding my dad's hand at the end, that was the lovely live-in carer. To be honest, she did a lot better job than I'd have done as I'd have been flapping, googling 'should I call 999' and crying a lot. And unless I'd have been living there, we could never have known it was the end because frankly it was astounding he lived as long as he did.

My parents did downsize from a vast house in the country to a merely large one in the city 15 years ago so that showed foresight. But they never accepted frailty and mortality until the point at which they were far to incapacitated to do all the sensible things that people have mentioned (finances, manageable homes, Swedish death cleaning). It took my poor brother years to untangle the bank accounts and they could have been far smarter with their financial planning to maximise money for care.

What I'm trying to tell myself is that I need to act like someone who doesn't have children. I didn't have them to look after me and I don't want their memories of me to be all the shit - the driver's licences, the call centres about sky boxes and bank accounts, the awkward conversations around living wills and end-of-life care.

This was prompted by someone up thread talking about Singapore and China's policy efforts to get children to care for elderly parents. I do think there is a role for state intervention, but it should be directed at elderly people looking after themselves not at their kids. When you get a pension, you should be directed to a list of other things that should be happening - POAs, advanced care directives, suggested housing options, things to think about even if only theoretically.

And I've said it before - DNACPR should be opt out rather than opt in over a certain age.

However. I have spent most of this week holding my mum's hand. Reassuring her that the morphine-induced hallucinations are just hallucinations. Telling her that I love her.
Who will do that for me/us?
Well, that's a question that is at the heart of much of my anxiety around what I do for my mum, knowing that while I'm planning to be able to afford to check into an appropriate home at the right time, who will actually care about me and miss me when I'm gone. I can only hope that I get a kind nurse who holds my hand like when my dad died in the middle of the night in hospital and we weren't there.

I don't think people who have children are immune to this - if I wasn't around and mum was reliant on DB alone then she probably wouldn't be managing at home at all given he works abroad. And we read enough on other MN threads about broken parent/child relationships. But having a child(ren) and being a basically decent person greatly increases your chances of someone holding your hand at the end.

@EmotionalBlackmail, @Valleyofthedollymix , @funnelfan I'm in the caring and childless gang.
And I am in a support group for childless women. You have hit on a huge issue.
To a certain extent, rigorous pre-planning can be helpful. Practically, and emotionally.
However. I have spent most of this week holding my mum's hand. Reassuring her that the morphine-induced hallucinations are just hallucinations. Telling her that I love her.
Who will do that for me/us?
That's not something you can plan your way out of. Yes, I consider taking my life when my time comes. No, I'm not sure I would have the courage to do it.

Yes, my DM was terrible with paperwork, but was always organised because she had a great memory. It's been a huge task to get all her paperwork sorted because she just stuffed things in envelopes in random drawers - all her life, not just due to dementia! While previously she would have remembered what drawer she stuffed, now she's denying any knowledge of the document in the first place.

Bags and bags of old photos and documents which delight my genealogical side though, and have been gradually going through, scanning and writing on the back who the people are so they are available for future generations.

And re the POA point above.

It's considerably easier being POA for someone who has already sorted out their paperwork, decluttered and sold their house, simplified bank accounts into one or two and is now living in a care home with no utility bills than it is for someone owning a dilapidated house with bills to pay, garden to maintain, carers coming in and out, vast amounts of stuff around and many different savings accounts with small amounts of money in because they were chasing interest rates and never closed the account afterwards!

The impression I got from the ones I've been involved with - distant relatives who hadn't had children or elderly family friends who had been denied permission to marry so they could care for their own parents and therefore never had their own children - was that they were much more organised and on the ball about it as they didn't expect someone else to do it for them.

So decluttered, got wills and POA in place, had set up accounts with taxi companies and/or moved somewhere sensible near amenities before they had to stop driving, researched care homes and chose to move into one before they deteriorated too much type stuff.

Although the key thing there is 'professional' women, they'd usually been teachers or similar, had inherited from the parents they'd cared for, had decent final salary pensions and could afford to make choices about where they lived and care homes.

I am hoping that there is a breakthrough in the next couple of decades re dementia treatment/prevention, so at least if not us, our children can live without this fear. The history of medicine shows us that things people thought were impossible to cure or treat are now routinely preventable. Can't do much about physical frailty, but the diseases of the brain are particularly cruel and incapacitating.

I also don’t have any biological children. I will plan to the best of my abilities, write instructions, downsize and Swedish death clean, make sure that I keep my affairs in order as long as I can. I am accepting now that if I decline the same way as my mum that I will have very little choice and control over my care and will be depending on the goodwill of others to make decisions that are in my interests. No doubt I will feel very sorry for myself in my last few years, should I be fortunate to live that long.

I'm one of those women @Valleyofthedollymix. No children (or current partner) and a job I can do remotely if needed. The last six years spent helping my parents who live 200 miles from me through diagnoses for heart failure, dementia x 2 parents, Covid lockdowns (as a single person I was in a support bubble with them although it was no support for me), the decline of dad's health and subsequent death and placing mum in a care home.

They both started showing signs of dementia around 80. They knew it was happening. I am trying to stay healthy so I can have a long life and active retirement but I fully intend to claim sleeping issues and get a stockpile of sleeping tablets from the doctor and then end my life before I become a burden on my younger sister in law or my nephew. I am not going to end my days as incapacitated as my parents.

I don't want to derail the thread and maybe I should start a new one, but...

How does all that we are doing to help our parents and the pressure to do more square with those who don't have children running around taking on all this stress. I read that over 40% of graduate women don't have children - what happens to them?

It's a live issue for me because my brother and his wife don't have children although they very much wanted to. He's getting freaked out wondering what's going to happen to them when they get old. I keep saying that I wouldn't want my children having to take all this on for me so we should all be working on the assumption that we are responsible for our own dotage.

I wanted to cry when I left. Most of those poor elderly people have no quality of life. It’s hard to understand quality of life. My father is bedbound, and does nothing but eat, sleep and watch tv programmes that he doesn’t understand. But he says “I’m warm, I’m well fed, I’m comfortable, I’m happy” and “I’m extremely well looked after”. He’s a lot happier than when he apparently had greater quality of life and was trying to solve the evils of the world

A small update - I went to visit him today.
I wanted to cry when I left. Most of those poor elderly people have no quality of life.

I feel so guilty for putting him there, but deep down I know I need this break & he's being looked after.

It turned out his DS didn't tell him about the message I had sent her the day before he was due in, that there was a deadline. She also told him I was aggressive toward her via text....

Thanks for the recommendation of 'Hags'. Must get a copy. Sounds in the vein of Germaine Greer's 'The Change', which isn't just about menopause, but the erasure of older women and the way in which the ageing woman is caricatured and demonised. Just as relevant today even though it was written in the 1990s.

It was 99p on the Kindle store last week and I’m really annoyed I forgot to buy it.

Was coming on to say Hags. Made me so angry

If you haven’t already, I’d recommend reading Victoria Smith’s book Hags - women of all ages need to listen to each other and learn from each other.

@TheShellBeach I work part-time (although for the last two years this has equalled being paid part time but still working a lot of unpaid hours to deliver things my job required). I went part time years ago so I wasn’t on a treadmill of just getting my children out of the door to childcare in the morning and taking them home to put them to bed in the evening every day. They are delightful and I enjoy their company when they deign to spend time with me - my DCs are in secondary.
DH wants me to go full time - but I am absolutely sticking with part time just now because of DF. DH is frustrated (and is probably right that I’m a fool) because I’ve worked extra hours and won’t get the pay (or pension) I deserve - but I don’t trust I’ll get the flexibility when I do need it if I commit to that. December involved too many drop everything days and I don’t know how many miles I drove running around. I probably have 15+ years until I’ll be able to retire but I already feel pretty exhausted and traumatised, plus I feel so guilty about how little time I have for my DCs and fear they’ll leave home before that changes.

We all have different challenges at our different life stages but the expectation that we’ll sacrifice our lives to prolong the life of someone with very little quality of life is why I’m here and feel solidarity with you. The sharing of information and experiences is very much appreciated, particularly feeling able to refuse the authorities and being forewarned.

TheShellBeach. Partly because of mum and partly because I wanted to care for my DGC one day a week. I found that from my late 50s it was enough to work part time.

If anyone feels able to add their signature to this please do. I doubt if it will make any difference to people living with dementia unless they’d made an advanced directive.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/653593

Did you only work part time also because of caring for your elderly mother?

I was on this thread just over a week ago to say that I would be in your position in about 6 months. Well, no. DM had a major stroke last weekend. She is in hospital and it’s now a waiting game to see what sort of care plan she needs. ATM it’s 24 hour live in care, probably with nursing. I doubt she’ll be capable of living on her own ever again.

Yep I agree the age thing is a real problem. Not only is my mum 92, i’m late 60s but my DC have primary school age children, so trying to help everyone is exhausting !
It was much easier when I was 27 with young children myself, when my Dad became disabled through a stroke, than it is now that I’m older and retired.
The last ten years before retirement I only worked part time, because it’s all I could manage. Holidays and luxury’s went by the wayside, now mums in a care home I’m too tired to be bothered.