So bloody exhausted waiting for someone to die 2

Oh StiffyByngs
Firstly I so get your post about just wanting everyone to eff off!
And so sorry you and DH are going through that.

, @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew . That sounds appalling.

Bloody hell @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew

This charity - Aging well without children - is trying to raise awareness and campaign about many of the issues highlighted above - I found it very interesting although I am not in this position myself but work for another charity who deal with lots of issues affecting older people, those with disabilities and their carers
https://www.awwoc.org/

I simply can't imagine being under that degree of stress, @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew

You're the default support human for everyone in your sphere Stiffy. It sounds like you need to do some re-evaluation to avoid carer burnout.

I've had to look and see what is the minimum that HAS to be done (people safe, warm, fed, clean) and let go stuff on my to-do list that isn't essential. Is your DH doing a fair share at home, is your DD of an age she can be contributing too?

Thank you for being supportive.
Over the last 5 weeks, my mum has had at least 3 ambulance calls, visits by 4 paramedics, 2 GP house visits, at least 9 or 10 district nurse visits, and 3 long GP phonecalls.
My daughter has had nothing and there's no hope of anything before she turns 18 so I've been paying privately and have only just managed to get 'shared care' in place for her prescriptions. It makes me want to cry (and of course I realise how massively lucky I am to be able to pay privately. I don't know what I'd have done if we hadn't been able to find the money)
(Anyway, sorry that might start to be a bit of a derail)

@SeriouslyAgain I'm so sorry that you're going through this - I've been there with DD and bear the scars. It's partly why I'm so compassion-fatigued with my parents, I had this intense two years where I gave over my whole self to DD's issues and just as she got better they deteriorated. I did this awful thing of not letting on how much better DD was because I used her as a shield to stop myself giving everything over to their care. It's this awful thing that the only reason a woman can say no to caring for parents is if they're caring for even needier children. Yet men can say no for work or myriad reasons.

And yes, the NHS rations resources. Of course it does and if lots go on elderly people, fewer go elsewhere. I asked for my father's notes from the GP as I wanted to talk to a consultant friend with more knowledge. They couldn't email them over as the file was too big. 200 pages for the last two years! And I absolutely wanted him to have that care from the GP and district nurse and was probably a demanding daughter. But what if it came at the cost of someone putting off going to the GP about their weird bowel movements or some other potential cancer symptom? What if people are dying or young people going without help in order for my father to have had that extra miserable year?

I heard someone say on the radio that no health system will ever have enough funding because if we get better at treating and diagnosing cancer and heart issues, we'll be left with more people living long lives with dementia which costs far far more. The NHS might be noticeably in crisis but actually it's common to all western health systems - it's built in.

Being in the sandwich generation, my personal experience is that the NHS puts vast resources into my mum's needs.
On the other hand, the waiting list for child mental health support is 3 years.
I think that's one of the reasons (apart from just being exhausted) that I'm so angry. I know it's not my poor mums fault and she wouldn't want to be living like this and 'causing bother' but the level of input for someone in their 90s and clearly dying versus a 15 year old just seems insane to me.

But then spend our evenings being entertained by murders, stabbings,shootings, forensics, post mortems…..

I remember about 10 years ago MIL was most indignant that FILs consultant had changed one of his meds. They were convinced that he'd been put on something that was cheaper just because he was old even though the consultant had explained it wasn't good to be on that med for too long as it loses effectiveness and it's normally swapped for another after 2 years. 2 minutes on Google confirmed what the consultant had said and O showed her but she wasn't having it. As far as they were both concerned it was definitely because he wasn't worth bothering with due to his age (mid 70s then). When you think about how much NHS resource each of them used over the next 10 years it was patently not true.

We have a very odd view of death I think in the modern world

To the extent that many people can't even say the word, and prefer to say "passed away" (or just "passed") rather than "died".

@Valleyofthedollymix
Absolutely agree and I don't think it's callous in the slightest. All of us have to die so it's not death in and of itself that is a 'tragedy'. It's sad (or not?!) for relatives and friends, but it's a fundamental part of human existence.
We have a very odd view of death I think in the modern world.

It's possible I won't feel like this when I'm old, but I don't think it's unreasonable to use 'most likely to benefit', partly based on age, as a pro or con for medical interventions. It's very natural to protect the young over the old where a choice has to be made - like women and children into lifeboats first.

I'd put myself in danger without a thought to protect my DC. I most definitely wouldn't for my mum.

Or actually any 90-year-old to be frank. I didn't think it was sad that the Queen died, so much as the final end to a long life well lived.

I disagree - to argue that making it opt-out is dismissing the lives of the elderly contributes to the idea that CPR is a good idea and works like it does on the TV, not that it's a very dangerous and brutal procedure. I think also that many people (not you) conflate a DNACPR with withdrawing all treatment, a sort of 'oh they can't be bothered to revive old people or treat them at all'.

I think it might prompt wider discussions around living wills and what medical interventions someone might want earlier, when it's more theoretical than imminent.

Although actually I do believe that the lives of the elderly are a lower priority than younger people, in the same way that my life as a 50 something is worth less than my children's. I've had more of it and they get get more QALYs if they can be saved. I was a bit perplexed by Michael Rosen and Joan Bakewell arguing in Covid that of course all lives are equal and all deaths equally tragic. I'm sorry if I'm callous but a 90-year-old dying with dementia is not a tragedy.

And I've said it before - DNACPR should be opt out rather than opt in over a certain age. That’s dangerous. It contributes to a belief that the elderly are dispensable, and can easily be extended to other things - eg in the first weeks of Covid when it was made clear that hospital treatment would be reserved “for those most likely to benefit”, age being a large factor in whether you were deemed likely to benefit?

In practice, I’ve been told that it’s very unlikely they’d do CPR on someone very old and frail.

I’m putting thought to this because I don’t want to rely on children. It’s the little things that are difficult, eg changing light bulbs when I’m shaky on a ladder. I don’t want to lose my independence and autonomy over a light bulb!