So bloody exhausted waiting for someone to die 2

Of course the life of a 15 year old is worth more than that of a 90 year old, I shocked anyone would think otherwise. I'm equally shocked you think the way you do.

Even NICE makes calculations including number of years likely to benefit. It makes calculations on the basis that "this drug is going to extend life only by 6months*. It doesn't, as far as I know, say "this drug extends life by 20 years, so it's wasted on an 80 year old, we'll only give it to under 60s" or "This operation will restore someone to full health, but we'll restrict it to under 60s because the over 60s have only got an average of 25 to 30 years left".

She’s asking to be taken out for the day somewhere, anywhere. I can’t contemplate this at the moment or ever Talk to the home - they may facilitate it, even if she has to pay for a carer to accompany her. My dad's nursing home occasionally takes groups along to the cafe, and has been happy to get Dad to and from the dentist, with me (ie him) paying about £15 for the carer to go with him.

Remember that just because she needs something, it doesn't have to be you fulfilling that need personally

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew jeez I'm so sorry about this disciplinary crap. It sounds relentless and exhausting and infuriating (much like all the other stuff you're dealing with).

@MereDintofPandiculation very happy to respectfully disagree! I sometimes worry that I'm an ageist overlord with a Logan's Run attitude so it's really useful for me to have other perspectives. I instinctively prioritise the lives of the youngest but maybe I'll start feeling differently as I get (even) older.

Not really - mum in a care facility and they are always on the phone, it is usually something trivial but she's been unwell lately and it would be just like it if I missed an urgent call. Also a single parent so kids are either with me or in school - and as someone said above, I'm the 'default', I'm the only emergency contact as their father works on the other side of town and is hardly hands-on anyway. Just get fed up and feel kind of tethered.

Can you go out for an hour without it and give yourself a little break? Is it possible?

I thought yesterday as I ran upstairs to get my phone - wouldn't it just be so lovely to be able to go out for an hour without this thing? I really hate the sound of my phone ringing. It just fills me with fear and trepidation.

PermanentTemporary Im sure I’d feel the same. It’s taking all I’ve got to visit at the mo, don’t know why I find it so exhausting maybe it’ll get easier 🤞 can imagine the staff saying that, it would make their job easier that day.
Maybe once the better weather comes and I’ve had a rest things will feel better.

@Metoo15 very good news about your mother and the care home.
Let her settle in. Just tell her you've got something like flu at the moment, to give you a reason not to arrange a day out with her, which will kill you physically and mentally.

Hearing you @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew. What a relentless grind. The only thing I can say is nothing at all... there isn't an answer for any of it.

@Metoo15 I really hope the home will do outings where it's possible - though it so often isn't, that's the point. I took my mum out for Christmas day 2 years ago and it was the most exhausting thing I have ever done, and requiree special sign off because it was risky. And at the end as I crawled away from my mums room with an hour's drive in the dark still ahead of me, one if the staff said cheerily 'now you've done it once you can do it again!' I wanted to hit him.

Of course the life of a 15 year old is worth more than that of a 90 year old, I shocked anyone would think otherwise. I'm sure you’ll come back with some but, but, but suppose the 15 year old has end stage cancer with days to live and the 90 year old runs marathons. Well suppose they're like the vast majority of 15 and 90 year olds instead. So if you have one space in the lifeboat and you can only save one of them, what would you do? Toss a coin? It's a complete no brainer to me, you rescue the 15 year old. In fact I would go further, the moral dilemma for me would be whether to push the 90 year old out of the boat so the 15 year old kid could get in. Even NICE makes calculations including number of years likely to benefit.
I'm old as well btw.

Hi. Just an update on my mum. The SW let me know yesterday that mum has a permanent place at her care home. At least we don’t have to go searching for an extra care living place as was suggested last week.
As for mum the realisation that this will be her permanent home is just setting in, and she’s not too happy about it. She’s asking to be taken out for the day somewhere, anywhere. I can’t contemplate this at the moment or ever, it feels too much, I’m not even sure she could get in and out of the car.
I desperately need to rest, I’ve had headache now for the last four days, and don’t feel good. And there’s still paperwork and her flat to clear out. Don’t know where to start to be honest, so I’m going to wait until next week.
Much love and strength to every one of you struggling with the oldies, it’s the most difficult thing. It’s going to take me a long time to remember who I am again and I know it’s changed who I am forever.

Or 85 and in a nursing home myself so I don't have to worry about anything I don't know about 85 year olds, but there's no limit to what a 95 year old will find to worry about!

But he paid no attention.

FFS.

@TheShellBeach Yup. My sister called him and told him to leave me alone, without me even saying anything to her about it.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew I cannot imagine how you and your DH are coping with that

@SeriouslyAgain what’s happening to your daughter is unforgivable, and it’s a desperate situation for you. Remember everything I’m arguing is in genuine terms, and I’m in no way saying that the balance of resources is right.

It's possible I won't feel like this when I'm old, but I don't think it's unreasonable to use 'most likely to benefit', partly based on age, as a pro or con for medical interventions. Very reasonable to use “most likely to benefit”. Not happy about including age in that unless there is good evidence that age in itself affects the effectiveness.

the nhs rations resources but why do they go to people at the end of life rather than the beginning? They don’t always. Look at the waiting lists for knee replacements and cataract operations.

But rather than saying “you’re too old to waste money on, we need the money for younger people”, why on earth don’t we change our whole way of looking at medicine and put far more emphasis on quality of life and independent life, rather than on length of life? It is worth investing in 70 and 80 year-olds - they provide childcare and are the backbone of voluntary services. But many of us on this board are saying “I don’t want to be lingering with dementia” - so why on earth do we do it?

It's very natural to protect the young over the old where a choice has to be made - like women and children into lifeboats first. Is that protecting the young, or protecting those less equipped to help themselves?

the other day I had to send officers to attend the "sudden and unexpected death" of a 101 year old.
I mean, really ? Sudden ? Unexpected?
What if you had discovered that a burglar had entered and biffed her on the head? That daughter had put a pillow over her face, not because she was worn out with caring or because she believed the 101-year-old’s life was intolerable but because she was fed up of waiting for her inheritance? Surely you have to rule out non-natural causes?

If I remember correctly, the chance of a 101 year old living to 102 is still substantial.

but the level of input for someone in their 90s and clearly dying versus a 15 year old just seems insane to me. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to support a 90 year old in otherwise good health and enjoying life. So many of us on this board are saying we do not want to live with dementia or pain, we want the option of assisted dying. And that would free up a lot of resources.

but your hypothetical 15 year has MH issues - and they are unsupported at all ages. A 15 year old with physical issues would not have the same delays.

Agree fully with all of this.

You’re conflating two things there. It is possible to be happy that a loved one’s suffering has come to an end while at the same time feeling profoundly sad that you have lost them.

Although actually I do believe that the lives of the elderly are a lower priority than younger people, in the same way that my life as a 50 something is worth less than my children's. We’ll not agree then. I’m not going to agree my life is worth less than yours simply because I’m older.

Hang on, @JellyWellyBoots is he still ordering you about?

I thought you were having respite from his demands.
Why couldn't he call his sister to get his booze?

I'm angry for you. You're not getting any rest, are you.

Yes I fantasise about that too. For some reason everyone thinks I'm parked round the corner on standby ready to cater to their every want & need.
I had an extremely busy day yesterday; work, hospital, work, school run, & in the midst of all of that DF texts me to ask me to go and buy him some alcohol & drop it at the care home. In the opposite direction.
I called at 8pm & he says 'are you parked outside?' I said dad, you have another daughter you could ask you know.

Im default for everything, plus a demanding job that is going downhill because im so damn burnt out I can't remember anything. Im usually so organised and on top of my work.

DF expects me to drop whatever im doing at any given moment to help him. I just can't!!!!