When does forgetfulness become dementia?

My dad was diagnosed with MCI. He was able to function fairly well at home, but went off the rails a lot from the moment he was hospitalised after a fall. It was very hard to know what to call it, e.g. delirium or dementia. In the end, I suppose, the brain is like any organ and eventually starts to fail. How and why it's failing, and to what extent, and what the effects are, must vary individually so is probably hard to measure...?

Have you claimed Attendance Allowance for him?

I’ve never heard of anyone being diagnosed with MCI - it seems to be dementia or nothing

I tend to think they might over diagnose dementia. My dad was diagnosed 10 years before he died and remained lucid throughout. He didn’t lose anything, repeat himself or display any other of the listed symptoms. None of us could understand it.

My 87-year-old mum has been worried about her memory for a while so is finally (8 months after a brain scan) going to get her results next week. I think (at most) she has mild cognitive impairment, but I strongly suspect they’ll diagnose dementia

@UltimateFoole my mum had fronto temporal dementia, and her first symptoms were some behaviour changes, but mainly her loss of words and in particular words for things. When she was diagnosed her standard memory test wasn't too bad - but the more specific test for her problems showed massive problems - she couldn't draw a clock or copy a picture at all for instance.
FTD is different from Alzheimers, and causes problems like mums distress at not understanding speech eventually, and she could see with her eyes but her brain didn't interpret things. Things people recommend for those with dementia didn't help her at all - she hated music later (for a while her music taste changed massively and she was no longer interested in what she had been and would listen to things she had hated), photos didn't mean anything and she'd get angry

@UltimateFoole I’ll PM you if that’s ok

What type of dementia did she have, Candle? My mum is a bit like this and I'm wondering...

I think it's really hard to tell how far someone's mental capacity has declined when they are living in a familiar environment and follow the same daily routine. To some extent we become a bit like trams running on tracks.

It can all go to shit if something changes, e.g. a fall resulting in hospital admission.

it is important in the early stages for someone still living independently as the diagnosis is needed to access certain services and funding Which services and funding are dependent on a diagnosis?

My father did not have a dementia diagnosis- he did the short test but scored too high - but we were able to get Social Services and OT support, and AA. We didn’t, of course, get the reduced Council Tax.

I think my advice would be, try to get a diagnosis, but don’t despair if it proves impossible. Help should still be available.

Please be aware that dementia is not the same for everyone - there are different types of dementia depending upon which part of the brain has stopped functioning properly. My mum struggled with planning and organisation, but my dad continued to cope with this but forgot who people were . We initially didn't pick up the problem with dad because of him still being able to do things mum couldn't (eg he could shop and cook a meal and deal with finances but became confused as to who we were).

Regarding the diagnosis - it is important in the early stages for someone still living independently as the diagnosis is needed to access certain services and funding. For a person who may have other problems and be already living in a care home, the diagnosis would not be so important .

@FictionalCharacter yes, the most recent version says "who was the first woman prime minister?" All the rest is the same though 😊 it's quite a tricky test really, in parts.

Thank you for that link @JennieTheZebra - looks like it needs updating from when Theresa May was PM though!

The problem the op has though is that she doesn't know if he does have dementia.

Dementia will show up in an MRI scan, and sometimes even in blood.

My mum had a rare form of dementia, which started off like that. No loss of memory or skills (tasks) at first, but a loss of words, telling the time, using “thing” for household objects etc.
Diagnosis made a huge difference as social services were then involved, as were the specialists. It’s not just a label. And there is a huge difference in age related decline and dementia.

I'd really encourage a GP visit. You could always email or send a letter in advance of the appointment with your concerns. And be prepared to push for them to listen...

This was rare so please don't panic, but when my Dad started to show signs of forgetfulness and a little confusion, having worked in elderly care for years I just assumed cognitive decline. Sadly for my lovely Dad, it turned out that he had liver cancer and the forgetfulness etc was actually hepatic encephalopathy. Poor Dad's brain was flooded with toxins that his liver couldn't process as it was failing. It took nearly 4 months to get this diagnosis because we couldn't get the GP past firstly long covid (he'd had it months before) and then likely dementia.

You absolutely need to know what you're dealing with - head in the sand approach never works well for anyone especially the person you love

Having a diagnosis saves a lot of time when you are talking to new health care professionals/social workers. "Mum has alzheimer's" cuts out a lot of the explanations/discussions and we can cut straight to the current issues.

Alzheimer's UK recommend that you never push the "do you remember?" questions as it can be really distressing to the person who can't remember.

Also, memory loss is not the same as cognitive decline, although it's obviously part of it. For example, the last time my dad visited us before he went into a home, as we have a fitted kitchen and all the doors look the same, he couldn't find the fridge. So we stuck a post it note on the door saying "fridge". He could read the note but couldn't work out that it meant that it was the fridge in there.

I think a diagnosis is useful, it opens up access to support like occupational therapy.

Agree with a diagnosis and getting the medication - it's definitely slowed progress for my step-mother.

Yes that sounds like dementia I'd push for an official diagnosis or if you can afford it, a private MRI scan will tell you immediately if it's dementia ( I think)

Regarding repeating questions, what do you say when he repeats a question! Do you just keep answering on? Another thing to try could be "dad, we just had a conversation about what's for lunch didn't we? Do you remember? Do you remember what we said? Have a little think and see if you can remember."

Sometimes repeating things is just a bad habit

Apart from putting all one's things in order, I don't know why people need a diagnosis. My sister got a diagnosis of Alzheimers a few months ago and then two days ago was told that she doesn't have it. Fortunately she didn't do something desperate when she thought she had it

It’s difficult and there are pros and cons.
One one hand a diagnosis can be very useful. In particular, it opens up specialist support and potential medication. Some services will only take referrals from people with a diagnosis. Also NHS continuing healthcare funding https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/ does require diagnosis/“rationalisation” of NHS support before they release any money.

On the other hand the diagnostic process itself can be distressing. The cognitive testing required is quite strenuous and designed to highlight everything that the person with dementia has been trying to hide/ignore/overcome which is upsetting in itself. Undertaking a CT scan, which is normally also needed, can also be quite tricky, especially if the person with dementia doesn’t see the need for it or think that anything is wrong.

Personally, I would say suggest that a diagnosis is usually a good idea, especially if the dementia is in the early stages. A diagnosis allows things like Power of Attorney to be put in place in advance of when they’re actually needed and will allow access to other resources in the future.

Make the home safe ie. trip hazards, use of gas cooker etc.

Although medication didn't work for my mum at all, I'd say having a formal diagnosis was really important. For my dad, it took the need to try and make her better out - before he would get cross as she just wasn't trying hard enough or being silly. And later when she had no filter at all, he could just tell people she had dementia (and at one point he had some little cards apologising for her behaviour and explaining) and they were much more understanding.
And though support should be needs based, not diagnosis, my colleague is struggling with social services for her mum who has post brain tumour cognitive impairment which may also be dementia around her mums placement as she doesn't have a diagnosis

That seems a very strange conclusion to take from this conversation.

You think? How else are we supposed to interpret a question like “what would a label do for you all?”

The word label is always used to disparage a potential diagnosis; make it sound pointless and wholly unnecessary. It also always comes from a place of denial.