🪳 Cockroach Cafe 🪳 Autumn 2023

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew sounds very much like my FIL who was always controlling. E.g. MIL never got to choose their holidays and if the subject came up it was always "don't you worry, I'll sort something". He hated employing any tradesmen as they never did it how he wanted etc. DH and I had a mahoosive row not long after we got married. We were putting in central heating and FIL had come over one Saturday afternoon to help. I went out to the laundrette and when I came back they had put our bedroom radiator exactly where the wardrobe was which meant the wardrobe was now partly covering a window. We had agreed where to put it but FIL had decided this was a better place and DH didn't dare argue. The following weekend, when he wasn't there, we moved it to the right place.

Stiffy's last paragraph is FIL to a tee as well.

No, in retrospect he's always been like this. I just didn't see it before. This has just made it a whole lot worse.
However he is definitely in denial about his health, even after he came home last night he just refused to acknowledge that lugging a 14 stone woman in and out of bed and onto the loo every day was not doing his health any good "oh no, I have no problems getting her out of bed" and saying it was no problem because "the hospital porters are fine moving people around". I did ask if the porters were 80 and he was forced to admit "no I suppose not"

I make him sound terrible but he is such a lovely man, so generous and all this stems from how much he worships my mum and that he cannot bear to have anything other than the best care for her - which obviously is him because he is the only one who is so dedicated to her. So he would rather be in pain than think mum wasn't getting absolutely the best care.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew i think a previous poster mentioned about control and I think I agree - is your dad so stubborn about His Way because it’s the only control he has left over his life and he’s hanging on to it because he can’t face/cope with his and your mums declining health? It could also be masking some cognitive changes of his own.

@countrygirl99 you are probably right 😂 I just imagine he was so outraged there was no way he was going to leave it !
dad doesn't accept any help even if he's offered it as "they don't do it right"

Bit late now @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew but your DH should have kept quiet when your dad said no. OK to have a word with your dad out of hearing but family help runs the risk of being "baked in"

@StrandedStarfish lots of useful support and advice here @funnelfan makes good points. Also I would contact help the aged who may have Information about charity befriending groups E.g. MiL had fortnightly visit from a volunteer who made a cup of tea and had a chat, Help the aged also had lists of cleaners and gardeners that worked mostly for elderly, it takes the pressure off you a little.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew i hope this is the wake up call🤞 and triggers some outside help. Re your flu, have you tested for Covid? Dh felt awful last week, bought some tests and he was positive so we knew to keep away from MiL and nursing home. He spoke to a business contact last week who had loads of staff feeling flu like and coughing etc at work, he made them all test and 50% had Covid. We test because dh work insist, and because of MIL and others at nursing home.

had chat with DM who blamed the phone as usual for poor hearing, makes any conversation exhausting as I have to shout and repeat myself. She told me her same story from 29 years ago about one of my cousins for the 50th time😮!!

nursing home politely say MiL has unpredictable moods …. They aren’t complaining, just being honest which I prefer.

@funnelfan : "I am currently operating a “good enough” standard - is mum safe, clean, comfortable and fed/watered? If yes, then the minimum has been met. Everything else is a nice to do, not a must do."

I need to remember this. I forget it so often and make myself ill trying to make life as perfect as possible for her (not that she shows any appreciation).

I was thinking this morning about something silly that happened right at the beginning but it actually sums up the issues.
I was making pancakes for them. Dad said "it's not oil it should be with butter" and then argued and argued with me. For context Dad never cooked anything before mum had her stroke and had made pancakes a couple of times at this point. I worked as a pastry chef for 5 years and have been making pancakes for 25 years. He would not accept that there was any other way of making pancakes other than the recipe he had followed from Delia Smith. He can only see one way to do everything. And that way is the Right Way.

Well dad is back, he got back around 2300. DH went to the hospital to sit with him, they had left him on a hard chair with no painkillers in the cold for hours. Hadn't given him even a cup of tea.
When the nurse asked if he had any support at home he said "no" ! ! DH said "It's a good job your daughter isn't here to hear you say that" and then told the nurse I go in every day. This morning he has already told me I was getting Mum out of bed wrong. Yesterday he admitted she needs to go in for respite for a couple of weeks, whether he will change his mind this morning is anyone's guess. She's going in regardless but it's just how much of a battle of wills he will make it.

@StrandedStarfish to tag someone type “@“ and the name of the person you wish to tag. Or you can do a quoted reply by clicking on the three dots for each post. “Reply” doesn’t actually do anything useful.

The Bill of rights is just something I found while working my way through a self help book while waiting for nhs Talking Therapy. Not everyone here agrees with all points, but I found it helpful to be reminded that I matter too. It’s a tool meant to help you set boundaries. https://www.etsu.edu/students/counseling/documents/stressgps/personalbillofrights.pdf

You do of course have options. If you are in the U.K. then a starting point is to ask your dads local council for an adult social care assessment. Depending on the authority they may be a few weeks/months wait, but they can visit and advise what options are available in terms of support, reference to other organisations such as visiting services. The key to this is to have decided in advance what you can do and hold the line, because social services are of course stretched to the limit and if there is any hint that family can step in then they will allow this and you to stretch to breaking point and beyond. The other option is to step back and allow your dad to decline to the point there will be a crisis and things have to change and he accepts outside help. Both scenarios are playing out on this thread right now.

many other parts of mumsnet will elicit a response of “it’s faaamily” and guilt you into carrying on. But on this thread/board we realise that family relationships are complex, and also that getting old can be frightening and bring out aspects of your personality that your family haven’t seen before. And that’s before adding in family history, sibling relationships, illness and cognitive changes. Plus, and I can’t say this enough, you have a right to your own life and happiness, and your family to a happy relationship with wife and mum. Your dads lack of planning about what to do in this situation does not create the absolute obligation for you to fix it, no matter how old and vulnerable he is or other family members pressure you.

I am currently operating a “good enough” standard - is mum safe, clean, comfortable and fed/watered? If yes, then the minimum has been met. Everything else is a nice to do, not a must do. I still give up a day a weekend myself to do a 200 mile round trip, shopping paperwork etc, so I’m not a total cow, but the difference is that I’ve always had a good relationship with my mum and she is appreciative in her own way. However I won’t be able to carry on that much longer without damage to my health, marriage and job, so I’m kind of banking on enough of a decline I can get her in residential care. Which sounds awful but like other posters I have to not think about the emotional side. I’ve mentioned previously that I’m pre-grieving the woman she was not the shell she is now. Mum disappeared not long after Dad died and left behind a frail old lady that looks a bit like her.

That's a big moment Emma. Congratulations for making a decision and moving forward. You're absolutely right about there being lots of good things in the world.

So sorry to hear of the continuing troubles

Permanent that numb thing is your mind's way of protecting you IMHO.

Update - following another emotionally hellish week, I exchanged on the old flat. The simple reality is I am not well enough to rent either out.

It's been a revolting year and to some extent I wish I had never moved...but on the plus side, this is a much, much better area so I will make the best of that.

Mum and sis are still quite alarmed by my state of health so....I plan to keep them in that loop frankly. Haven't told them I've exchanged.

I have no doubt mum will have another crisis so even if I start to feel better, which I think I will, I'm going to keep quiet. My sister is actually starting to do stuff to help, so while I wouldn't normally lie to her, on this occasion, it's just, whatever I have to do to help myself.

There is actually nice stuff out there in the world but it's so hard to remember that when you have oldies.

Thanks for the replies. I’m sorry I don’t know how to tag users.

Ive been looking for the bill of rights. Please would you post a link?

My family are in the UK. I have an older brother in Canada

I am stuck. My father was a reasonable man while I was growing up. He isn’t a strong man but very much ‘anything for an easy life’. He took the easy path with the stepmother and supported her family. Now my step siblings only turn up when the want money. I had to laugh at. The line ‘you used to pay all mums bills so she gave me money. I am down a hundread pounds a month since she died.’

My mother would expect me to take care of him, and I do feel that I have no option.

@StrandedStarfish I think I'd be doing very little for him to be honest. Especially given the history. But I think I must be a lot harder than many. Please prioritise yourself and your own family.

This is why we sit in the Bad Daughters' Room, Stiffy.

I think the feeling has been beaten out of me. In the past if I'd ever seen my mum like she is today even for a few hours, I'd have been distraught. But now it's normal. And it's awful, but I can't feel it.

And to watch your mum and dad stick in a situation that could be less terrible but they won't take even simple actions to change things, is so horrible. And you can't do anything. If you felt it every second you would keel over.

Reading back I sound like a right heartless cow. I think these last years have robbed me of any ability to feel anything any more.

Hopefully @funnelfan. I had actually called in sick with flu this morning as I felt so awful so this really has not helped as I had to drop my plans of sleeping all day to deal with this shambles. Their career said she has been telling him to go to the doctor for weeks 🙄. Hopefully this might finally force him to listen to advice rather than thinking he knows best.
we waited over an hour for the ambulance for someone potentially having a heart attack. God knows what you have to do to get a cat 1 response. He has been in the waiting room in a&e since about 4pm, had some tests but they mucked them up so he has to have them done again.

Sorry your dad is in pain @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew but hopefully this will be the crisis that forces a change for the better all round.

Welcome @StrandedStarfish , sorry you have to be here. Have you read the Bill of Rights linked up thread? Short version: you don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Are you in the U.K.?

Fingers crossed @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew

Well dad has had to go to hospital.
the carer phoned me at 10:30 to say he couldn't move. By thr time I got here he was in agony and had called an ambulance. He then got chest pains and we thought he was having a heart attack. He hasn't had a heart attack but they have taken him in for further checks.
hopefully he will now admit that he needs to have some respite care and also a change of the way he looks after Mum. and that he needs to look after himself as a priority.

Thanks for this thread. I’m finding life difficult at the moment.

My mother died just after I left home and father remarried quite quickly. I wasn’t welcomed into that home unless they needed help. My stepmother recently died, and my Dad has been diagnosed with several conditions. He is now housebound. He has no one other than me. I have a brother who lives abroad. My Dad is lonely, grieving and unwell. I’m with him for2 hours each day and then spend a day each week caring / cleaning / cooking and medical appointments. My husband and children aren’t involved as they are unhappy in the way my dad and stepmother have treated us.

I feel very alone and utterly flummoxed as to how life has changed, and that it’s only going to get worse.

Thanks for the safe space.

@FeelingOverwhemed every week?? That sounds insanely tough. I see my mum every week but she's being looked after so it's just social, and she's only an hour away; my only child is at uni now. I still find that tough.

Have you and your brother discussed other options? What about more paid care and cutting your visits to monthly?

@ny20005 That sounds so familiar. My father refused to countenance having a stairlift fitted because he was worried about damaging the staircase in their listed house. My severely arthritic, post-stroke mother was bumping up and down the stairs on her bum for at least a year (I suspect longer) before my sister and I realised, and absolutely insisted that they got a stairlift.

My mother only had bed-washes/sponge baths for the last five years of her life because they refused to refit either of the bathrooms to make them accessible for her. My father was also disabled but could get in and out of the shower with assistance until near the end.

They should have moved out of the unsuitable house, of course, but that was not a subject they were willing to discuss at all. Gaaah. They are both dead now, but it makes me angry in retrospect, knowing how much easier and better their lives could have been if they had only been a bit less inflexible. Or rather, if my father had been a little less inflexible, and my mother had been more willing to challenge him and less willing to martyr herself. I suspect it is a familiar pattern.

Hello 👋 new here, no specific advice needed, just feeling a bit alone and despondent at the moment.
My dad was diagnosed with PSP last year and has declined to the point of being bed/wheelchair bound, not talking, needing fed/carers in for washing and continence care. All other care done by my 71 year old DM. My brother and I go over on alternate weekend days to give DM a break, which is a 3-4 hour round trip for me. I also work 4 days a week and have young children. I feel trapped and tired!

In-laws are also starting to have health issues - I just feel like all family interactions involve worrying about people and illness!

Thanks all. It helps so much just to have somewhere to vent, poor DH has had it since august 2020. The only time I can get away from it all is if I leave the country.