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Elderly parents

District nurses catheter

70 replies

Flyhigher · 05/10/2023 21:44

84 year old FIL. Might need a catheter.
He can't do it himself. Will district nurses come four times a day? Has anyone had this with their parents ? He's not super flexible and very uncoordinated. Any advice?

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Flopsythebunny · 07/10/2023 09:32

Flyhigher · 07/10/2023 07:35

So... what kind of care packages are there? Help!!

If they have savings, I would start researching private care companies near them now. District nurses do not visit to empty catheter bags. Its classed as personal care, not medical.
The discharge team at the hospital should arrange carers for a limited time to give you chance to organise your own .
Whoever you choose will come and do an assessment and write a care plan.
When we were in the same position with my mother in law (who lived with us) we worked full time so would have a carer come for an hour each morning to get her up, showered, dressed, breakfast and bed change and all her personal care, half an hour at lunchtime and teatime then instead of an evening call, we would do it. It used to cost around £1,400 per month but that was 10 years ago.
After a year of doing this, my husband had to take early retirement because she couldn't be left alone. We continued with the carers though because she wouldn't have wanted her son doing her personal care.

mumsnoangel · 07/10/2023 07:45

Carers not careers!

mumsnoangel · 07/10/2023 07:45

In my experience of my elderly fathers NHS discharge they arrange NHS funded careers to come for a few days while paid-for care was organised. The Local Authority (Social Services) suggested carers and my father had to pay around £300 set up fee plus then the ongoing cost of the carers. It's not cheap. He has savings so didn't even attempt to get any funding as would not have qualified. It's a difficult time. My father felt he carers were unnecessary and was quite resistant.

Flyhigher · 07/10/2023 07:36

He's now ranting incoherently. And crying a lot.

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Flyhigher · 07/10/2023 07:35

So... what kind of care packages are there? Help!!

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Flyhigher · 07/10/2023 05:58

They have always been impractical. I think they both have dyspraxia. Or he had hemiplagia.
They cannot use Velcro. Nurses not helpful showing him anything. I had a debate with one. They've had him in a room sitting in a chair for 9 days. He's 84. They are not helping him. So he cries every day gets anxious. They just come in and say. It's fine. I had to really push to put a leg bag on him. 9 days with a night bag. They are nice but useless. No good sisters in.

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bizzey · 07/10/2023 01:08

This thread has taken a funny turn 🤔

MereDintofPandiculation · 06/10/2023 23:16

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 23:01

So do you put your leg on the loo seat and open the valve? Surely wee goes everywhere?

Stand in front of loo. Lift tube so it is over the pan, use other hand to open tap. It then just trickles down into pan.

Alternatively, sit on loo, aim tube into loo and open tap.

If he can't manage velcro, he will have difficulty with the velcro strap supporting the bag. It's advised to switch legs each day to avoid penis getting sore through tube always being pulled to the same side of it.

But basically, there's no trouble with controlling the jet of urine. If you're ever caught short in the countryside and have to go "behind a bush", emptying a leg bag is easier and more discreet than peeing normally.

shiso · 06/10/2023 23:12

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 23:01

So do you put your leg on the loo seat and open the valve? Surely wee goes everywhere?

Put a jug under it, open the tap, empty the bag, close the tap, tip jug down the loo. Thousands of elderly and disabled people managed to do this all day every day. I think you maybe need to give a bit more credit to them. Just because they are elderly doesn't mean they are completely useless at life. They've managed until now. If they are as infirm as you say then an assessment for social care should have been in the pipeline long ago. And yes you may have to pay for a care package.

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 23:09

@Stomacharmeleon it's not reticence. They can hang pictures. Can't plant bulbs in the garden.

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Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 23:01

So do you put your leg on the loo seat and open the valve? Surely wee goes everywhere?

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Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 22:59

He can't put Velcro on anything. Neither can she. Can't lift levers and aim them anywhere. Can hardly drink from a cup without spilling it. Always drop food down themselves and on the floor.

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Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 22:58

They can't put a plaster on. You have no idea how incompetent they are.

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MereDintofPandiculation · 06/10/2023 21:17

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 16:56

Thanks. Another DN told me about this my neighbour. And I've mentioned it to the nurses and the docs. And they just say that's urology. Nothing to do with us. We don't know.
A junior doc looked into it a bit. But the nurses then over rode him. I don't think they keep those in hospital. They are £26 each and you need one every 7 days. So I guess there's your answer. I'm guessing bags are cheaper.

Are you sure about that price? I think that's for a pack of 5 or 10.

They're not going to be vastly more than the bags because the bags also have a valve/tap on them.

feathermucker · 06/10/2023 18:34

If he cooks, perhaps he may have the dexterity to open the valve a few times a day to empty?

FannyFifer · 06/10/2023 18:09

A catheter bag is absolutely easy to empty. He would just go to the loo, turn the valve & the pee will go in the loo.

Stomacharmeleon · 06/10/2023 18:00

@Flyhigher I know your saying they are incompetent but it's a valve on a bag. That will stop the need for carers. I don't understand the reticence (and I do get it. I have a colostomy permanently. They take some getting used to and then-poof- it's like it's always been there)

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 16:56

Thanks. Another DN told me about this my neighbour. And I've mentioned it to the nurses and the docs. And they just say that's urology. Nothing to do with us. We don't know.
A junior doc looked into it a bit. But the nurses then over rode him. I don't think they keep those in hospital. They are £26 each and you need one every 7 days. So I guess there's your answer. I'm guessing bags are cheaper.

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MereDintofPandiculation · 06/10/2023 16:55

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 07:36

He lives with his wife. But they are both very impractical. He cooks too.

If he can't manage it and his wife is willing, she could turn the tap to drain the bag. If the catheter gets blocked by sediment or infection, you call the District nurses who will come out and change it.

If he can't manage the tap on the bag, he won't manage a catheter valve. It's basically the same system, except omitting the bag, so urine collects in the bladder not the bag.

They have a house and savings. So am assuming there will be no free care. House is left out of the calculation if he's still living in it, or if his elderly wife is. So financial assessment will be done on his savings plus half of any joint savings.

Frazzledandfried · 06/10/2023 13:53

Ex District nurse here.
Sounds like the most sensible solution is a flip flo valve. No bag on the catheter and just a tap on the end of the catheter which you turn on to empty your bladder and turn off when you've finished. This would be the best way for your dad to keep bladder sensation, helpful especially if the catheter is only a temporary measure after surgery. They should be able to put one on while he is in hospital and make sure he has got the hang of it before he is discharged. If he can turn on a tap and still goes for a wee by himself at the moment then he will manage that OK.

TheShellBeach · 06/10/2023 13:47

He needs to practice emptying the bag while he's in hospital.

SM4713 · 06/10/2023 12:45

Have you spoken to the ward sister or discharge planning team then? What have they put in place? Does he know how to empty it etc? Does he have the dexterity to use the toggle thing to open/close and empty it?

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 12:42

Not discharged yet. But I know him. And honestly don't think he can.

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SM4713 · 06/10/2023 12:39

Did they show him how to attach a night bag? How to empty the bag with the toggle? Does he have a community nurse booked to see him? Wasn't there any paperwork on discharge?

Flyhigher · 06/10/2023 12:37

You have no idea how incompetent they are. They can't put a plaster on. They also are 84 and not that mobile. But unbelievably incompetent. Can hardly do anything practical.

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