Person going into care home thinks they have avoided selling their house to pay fees?

Exactly.

Thanks for the reply. That's what I was thinking too. Also, does anyone know if IHT would be due as the first share was done <7 years before death? I know that's not what this thread is about. But just curious.

I think the LA could put a charge on the share. If funds could be found elsewhere to settle the charge of the few months left then I don’t think the house would need to be sold. But I am not an expert and suggest Age Concern, as others have.

Hi @MereDintofPandiculation !

care homes include heating, lighting, rent, food, cleaning. All of these a person would have to pay for from pension etc if not in the home. So I think it is unreasonable to pay nothing.

the funding model of residential care (ie not nursing) has, I think, never been folded into NHS funding. I suppose it could be an analogy with housing benefit rather than healthcare? Ie you get support if you need it to live somewhere and not if you don’t.

Does anyone know if a property can be disregarded by the government if an adult child owns a share, lives in it with children under 5 and the parent signs the rest over WHILST they are in a care home (and also <1 year before they die)???

The LA can seek it back from the recipients, depending on the circumstances of the gift.

@Mbop The 7 years applies to Inheritance Tax. It doesn’t apply to deprivation of assets.

Care is expensive and who else is supposed to pay for it? You can't expect the state to pay for everyone, and those who do get funding from the state are often put in homes they really would not choose to be in. We expect the state to pay for everyone with, say, cancer. Why isn’t cancer treatment means tested? Because we’ve made the decision that medical care should be funded for everyone. So why shouldn’t we make the same decision for elder care? You may not approve of inheritance, but the current system where inheritance is a lottery is unfair. Parents work hard to try to leave something for DC or GC, and then it is all wiped out.

I think it's hard to generalise about private versus LA. I've had elderly parents in both. Thé LA one was grim but serviceable. The two private ones were better. Until the family who ran my mother's home sold it to a group.

The nice carpets, extensive grounds, and onsite hairdresser, remained, but standards of care plummeted. All the existing staff left and were replaced by agency staff.

Subsequently my late mother's care shortly before her death became the subject of a LA enquiry with CQC involvement. They found one case of neglect and two other instances of likely neglect were there was insufficient evidence.

The other thing to remember is that, if there are plenty of assets apart from the house, the LA won’t get involved as the person will be self pay. My dad is self pay, my mum is in their joint home, but his work pension, state pension, attendance allowance, care contribution policy are enough to cover the weekly rate. My mum has care visits at home. Overall, they are eating into savings a little, but not appreciably, and it will be a long time until the assets bar the house are reduced to the LA level.

Once they are, the LA will pay the set level towards the home and we can choose to top it up so that he doesn’t have to move (DH did this for MIL for a few months before she died)

The deprivation of assets rule is to catch people who know they are going to need care and deliberately seek to evade care fees. It’s less likely to be applied when the person has full capacity and no immediate prospect of needing care when they make the transfer.

I agree we should contribute towards our care fees if we can, but I wonder how many people realise that self funders are subsidising LA funded beds because these are capped at a significantly lower rate. So the costs to self funders can be eye watering.

Given the cost of care home fees, I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed. It's very easy for them to check out when a transfer happened.

What if the person needing care had a home that was paid for, had done equity release and gifted the money to their children?

What could the LA do in that case if the person then required care, say a decade or so down the line?

If his partner is living there as her only home, it won't be included in the Financial Assessment.

Go take a look at what 'best' means.

I saw appallingly cruel staff at some care homes. Where people need nursing care, not just residential, they get away with murder (hopefully not literally) as the residents are powerless. Regardless of the ££££ they pay for the privilege.

My mum is in the process of buying a new home and she is purchasing it in my name.

She is only 55 so unlikely to need nursing home care in the near future.

There aren’t going to be any mortgage implications as she is buying the house outright from the sale of her current home (she is mortgage free).

The solicitors are aware she is doing this and the reasons why.

For any fees that are incurred in the process of buying the new house, surveys, general admin fees etc, my mum will put the money in my bank and then I will ring the solicitor and pay the bills direct from my account.

My mum is adamant that she does not want all the things she has worked for over the duration of her active life being taken by the government at the detriment of her children and grandchildren’s inheritances.

I have told her that I’m really not fussed about inheritances and it’s more important that she has good nursing care if she needs it but she doesn’t want to hear it.

And speaking from the experience of having worked in various care homes, just because the private ones are bigger and look nicer and the staff wear fancier uniforms, that certainly doesn’t mean the quality of care is better.

Probably fine if they were healthy at the time with no expectation of needing care eg didn't have a diagnosis of something that would likely require care later on

Better hope he doesn’t fall out with his brother, then, or they will be homeless.

What would happen in a situation where an older person sells a larger family home, downsizes (still living independently) and passes on the difference in value in cash to their children to eg help them with a house deposit/ uni costs for grandchildren etc ? Is that still deprivation of assets when later down the line they might go into care?

Absolutely this. If I ever need care, I want the best care, not funded by the LA.

As an ex district nurse in and out of many many care homes over the years, the best care was definitely not always provided by the private care home with its potted plants and new carpet. Surprisingly, quite often the opposite.

If I have dementia and euthanasia is still not lehal, I definitely don't want my money wasted on an expensive care home. I have seen plenty of expensive care homes and really ... it all depends on the staff. And they are still paid minimum wage. The profits are higher in the expensive places.
I'd rather pay £££ for daily care at home while able (that does give you more control) then nothing at all once dementia takes hold.
By 90, who cares about the 'comforts' of an expensive care home. It's all about how nice the staff are.

Best care home I ever saw was council run. That's actually not surprising. Why would private be better?

Friends father put house in trust to his daughter and his wife outlived him.when she needed to go into care the LA ended up forcing the sale of the house after huge wrangling and threats of court.the whole thing was incredibly stressful for the whole family. They ended up with huge amounts to pay off from sale of house.The father had been advised by a solicitor who seemed completely incompetent years and years ago and not fit to practice by the time they were being threatened with court proceedings.Daughter had no idea her dad had arranged this and the mum was too confused to help

As others have said, it depends when it was done.

My Dad put his flat in the names of my sister and I when he was only in his 60s (he effectively gifted it to us though we never lived there). If he ended up in a care home, that would not be counted as deprivation of assets as it happened long before he was vulnerable.

My in laws on the other hand gave their daughter one of their two properties in their 80s and I think they could be on dodgy ground as it is conceivable they could need to go into a care home in the next couple of years. Though I also wonder how the authorities would know if no one mentions it.

I too would prefer my parents home to go for good care if they need it. But I guess the huge rise in house prices relative to wages is a big factor in intensifying this issue. A modest house can now be worth a huge amount and may be DCs only chance of owning a home.

why's everyone talking about local authority care homes (bad apparently) versus private (good apparently)

Private doesn't means better or more exclusive - it means they're profit driven businesses

I think most people are talking about having more choice, if you're funding yourself, not that all private ones are automatically great. But you must have a better chance of finding somewhere you like if you're the one choosing it.