FIL, care and how often DH should go

Have you raised the possibility of a care home? We are in a similar position with MIL. One SIL is currently carrying the biggest burden caring for her with DHs support and another sibling lives abroad. DH accepts MIL probably needs more care than family can offer, she has 60 care hours per week multiple visits daily and respite time as well but she still needs more significant additional input from particularly SIL but DH as well. His sisters don’t accept a care home option yet and certainly MIL never will. It will ultimately next come down to when SIL decides to go the care home route but for the moment she feels the benefits for her of having her mother with her outweigh the consequences. It is very tough emotionally for family members to get to the point of a care home and I think it is pretty usual for the caree never to get there.

effectively your BiL and FiL are waiting for some kind of health crisis with your FiL that forces their hands on what to do.

you could forgive your FiL for being happy with the status quo if he is warm and fed in his familiar bubble and has reduced capacity to consider the wider situation. But it does sound like your DH needs to have a hard conversation with his brother. Surely your BiL knows more than anyone the hard reality of your FiLs situation, so you need to get to the bottom of why he’s in this limbo and unable/unwilling to change things.

my DB had a hard time emotionally with our mums decline, and was in denial for a bit about how bad she was, but he got there. I’ve done my grieving for the woman she once was. I’m not trying to gloss over how hard that all is, but the urgencies of the practical aspects force your hands.

Also (and I'm someone who has had a relative in hospital for extended periods) hospitals do eventually want to get the beds freed up. So even if MIL is in there for a long time it's not a permanent move. Could both of them go into the same home? Having two people to look after is going to be incredibly tough on everyone.

i may be misreading your posts, but it looks like BIL is actively making these choices - to live at home / with FIL, to become his carer, to decide that FIL needs somebody there between care visits: he’s not being forced into this situation by you or anyone else? SS are already providing the max carers and BIL is - by his own choice - filling in all the gaps.

why did he never leave home? What’s his financial / working / relationship situation? he’s very young to have chosen to remain at home and become a carer. Is your DH older or younger than him?

initially I got the impression you didn’t care and wanted to step away from it
But reading your updates it’s not the case

FIL will not see the gravity of the impact of his choices
BIL needs to go out and leave him
nothing will change till it comes to crisis point or something happens

4 visits a day for carers they tend to do all the personal care and meals
with him been bed bound BIL on his own can’t really do anything anyway
changing him will be a 2 person job so he would have to wait for the carers irrespective

the last 2 y my dad went off his legs there was only the carers who could change and sort him as the were in pairs

Your BIL chose never to leave home.
He's in his thirties and has benefitted from lower rent/bills presumably.
This was fine while his Mum did all the wifework.
Now it's biting him in the butt.
Cannot have it both ways.
He either moves out, property is sold and FIL goes into a care home with proceeds of house to help fund that (if MIL never going to be released from hospital) or he moves out, you sell the property and make an annexe for in-law(s) to live with you.
Either way, you need Power of Attorney and he needs to look for somewhere to live.

Will MIL be fit to be discharged from hospital back home? Or will she need a care package?
I think that will be the crunch point.

OP I feel for you - I've got young kids and elderly parent and it's shit. Your kids need to be first and foremost in this as they have their whole lives in front of them and need their parents.

I'd have a chat with your husband and sort out what he reasonably can and can't do.

It's not your husband's job to prop up his brother in a caring role his brother doesn't want, at your kids' expense. Definitely look at respite care; FIL needs to be realistic.

The other thing you've said is that BIL seems to think it will "magically go away". It can be grim but nobody goes on forever! This will pass, it's just about figuring out how balance FIL's needs and your family, right now.

I would absolutely say respite care. Any homes nearby that allow a week or two stay, and it’s a good way to check them out too. At the moment, BIL is getting no proper break and this might help him reset and rethink.

Has POA been set up?

Live in care will be a lot more than 4 care calls a day

I think it would be cheaper, actually.
The last time I did live-in care was six years ago and I charged £100 a day.

I imagine four visits a day would be more than that.

Does bil have to visit his mom in hospital too? Sounds very busy. Definitely the right time for fil to go into full time care.

Perhaps BIL needs to book a 1 or 2 week holiday and FIL will agree to go into respite care.

This would give everyone a break and FIL might find her has better care overall?

(Not as easy to achieve as to write).

Live in care will be a lot more than 4 care calls a day.

@4899f what additional care does your BIL give to his dad outside of the care calls? You say that he has capacity but that this fluctuates. Do his needs increase when his capacity fluctuates?

Unfortunately there needs to be some really honest conversations between your DH his brother and your FIL. Your DH need to make it clear that his current level of support is not sustainable so alternative arrangements need to be made. If your FIL is adamant that he wants to remain at home but your BIL can't cope with this, he needs to explain to his dad.
If your BIL is determined to keep his dad at home whatever then he needs to accept DH cannot be significantly involved and the family plan accordingly.
Your DH does not have to continue doing what he is, but he needs to be very honest about it not being an option at all.

Would BIL accept a live-in carer?

Maybe on a one week on/one week off basis?

There are plenty of carers advertising in The Lady who do this. I used to do it myself.

Mind you, it's expensive, but probably about the same as you're paying for 4 visits a day.

It sounds to me like FIL needs to go into a home and DH needs to keep mentioning that to BIL until BIL reaches the point of agreeing.

Is FIL getting Attendance Allowance? It's not means tested so he would qualify if he has carers

It’s so difficult. I don’t know how people do this …. So exhausting and so much uncertainty about what could/should happen. Wish I had an answer for you.
Perhaps all you can do at the moment is keep muddling along doing the best you can, and somehow ensure you look after yourselves as well, must be very stressful.

This is really tough. I think sometimes it's about being the sibling the encumbered siblings can let off steam to..rather than trying to solve the issue
My BIL is on the ground with my FIL (now in a home but its been a long painful and difficult process) we live 4 hours away. My DH nearly killed himself driving up every weekend for ages. Mostly to give BIL support. Costing us a fortune in hotel bills It's not sustainable in the long term tho.
If your BIL does not want FIL in a home and he has the max care BIL will tolerate then really that's his call..I guess your DH needs to make clear that you will help with getting FIL into a home or arranging more care but if that's not wanted what else can you do?
Meantime I think I would set out a more realistic visiting program. Maybe go for longer but less frequently. Full weekend every other week or whatever suits you to give BIL a proper break whilst allowing your DH to also see his DC and get rest too..
Meantime my DH is the one BIL can ring to moan to and ask advice of or give tasks that can be done from a distance to. He goes up once a month . It's the best we can do.

Is BIL worried that if FIL goes into care then he will have to find somewhere else to live? If he's never moved out and has been full time carer (so assume not working) he may feel overwhelmed by the prospect, it may be that is whet he needs help with?

It does sound tough OP, if BIL doesn't want FIL to go into a home then what is his proposal to sort the problem?

Sorry not meaning to press but was the social services assessment recent? And after MIL was already in hospital?
it may be that if BIL lives in same house as FIL then SS will happily leave him to cope with the situation…. Very difficult for all of you