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Original poster

Desperate situation with MIL (trigger warning-suicide))

91 replies

Olinguita · 30/04/2023 22:46

My MIL has gone into a downward spiral since FIL passed away two years ago. She lives alone and basically can't cope with the loneliness. She is 68 and is able bodied. Over the past year, she has started drinking heavily and calling up my DH saying she wants to die and that we have abandoned her. She lives in another country but is also a British citizen so technically she can come to the UK easily to visit and can also live here. We have hosted her for two stretches of 2 months, on one occasion in our two bed flat right after my DS was born. we didn't really have room and she was not an easy house guest but it was the right thing to do, and family is family, so I stuck it out.

DH has also been over to visit her a few times. She refuses counselling or any kind of psychiatric help. She has few friends as she had a very happy but ultimately very codependent relationship with late FIL. She has no interest in making friends or taking up other activities. She has also alienated a number of friends and relatives, I think because of erratic and drunken behaviour.

She wants to either move in with DH, DS and I permanently, or she says she will drink herself to death. She says she drinks because she is lonely, and if she lives with us .... She won't.

The problem is, she is a very volatile and demanding character, and while she can be really sweet and generous at times, she has form for controlling behaviour and histrionics. Her presence in my home has really strained my marriage. I know if she were to move in with us on a permanent basis she would lean on us for her every need and would demand constant attention. I work full time and have a toddler (who doesn't sleep). I literally think I will have a breakdown if I have to live with her permanently and even if I did just suck it up, I'm not sure it would be a healthy environment for my son to grow up in.

She has assets in the country where she lives that could be sold to purchase a small flat near to DH and I. I have suggested the following options:
-She can live with us for two months of the year
-She can buy a small property nearby (we can help her) and we will see her multiple times a week and incorporate her in family life, but we will have separate homes.

  • she attends a rehab in the country where she is now (we have found a beautiful place with a very holistic approach that we can afford - it would be financially out of our reach in the UK but we can fund 3 months of this in her home country) at least that would be a start, and then we can work from there.

MIL simply isn't willing to engage in any of these options.

She was found wandering the streets outside her home pissed out of her mind several times. Last week a neighbour found her face down on the pavement. I keep telling my DH he needs to get on a plane and just DO something.

I am sick with worry, DH is permanently angry and on edge, and the atmosphere in my home is frankly poisonous. Sometimes I feel like I'm the problem.

I'm so scared the phone will ring and it will be the neighbours saying she has been found dead.
Can anyone offer some words of wisdom or just a hand-held?

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Squashitswaterandfruit · 25/10/2023 08:38

Both your DH and his mum are using you as the villain so they don't have to shoulder any responsibility. The reason why your MIL has not accepted any of your sensible options and is just pushing to live with you is because those options involve her seeking help for her alcoholism.. as long as she pushes you to accept a scenario she knows full well you can't accept then she can carry on drinking and blame you for it. Similarly with your DH he cab pretend if it wasn't for you he would take her in when in reality he could not do that.
But you are not the villain. You are the only reasonable one who acts like an adult

Original poster
Olinguita · 25/10/2023 08:32

@countrygirl99 good point. I've made it very, very clear to DH that she is not coming to visit unless she has proper health insurance in place.

OP posts:
countrygirl99 · 25/10/2023 08:30

Olinguita · 25/10/2023 08:22

@countrygirl99 if she becomes resident in the UK she would be - she has citizenship because she was born in the UK but not a passport. The problem is I don't know what other benefits (if any) she would be entitled to for care if she needed it

She may still not be entitled to NHS care if she hasn't been resident for a long time. People who retire to Spain aren't. I would be researching that very hard.

Original poster
Olinguita · 25/10/2023 08:27

@Totalwasteofpaper unfortunately DH won't consider therapy at all. I had Relate counselling solo and it was awful, there was a lot of focus on my "communication skills" and absolutely zero empathy for the tight spot I was in. Like I could just adopt a positive mindset and "communicate" my way out of the situation... however I think DH does need help. There are so many times that a drunken phonecall from MIL has absolutely poisoned the atmosphere in the home because DH is so tense, and so many days when he has been distracted and stressed by being on the phone to her, including on special occasions. Even just the phonecalls are such a distraction from parenting and he won't get this time with DS back.

OP posts:
Original poster
Olinguita · 25/10/2023 08:22

@countrygirl99 if she becomes resident in the UK she would be - she has citizenship because she was born in the UK but not a passport. The problem is I don't know what other benefits (if any) she would be entitled to for care if she needed it

OP posts:
countrygirl99 · 25/10/2023 08:14

Would your MIL be eligible for NHS care if she came to stay indefinitely? What about any visa requirements? Bureaucracy may be your friend here.

Totalwasteofpaper · 24/10/2023 14:18

You poor woman. I have so much sympathy.

My MIL is way less extreme but similarly had a difficult childhood and has abandonment issues /didn't have a proper childhood so behaves very childishly as an adult. High emotional manipulation and hystronics, desperate for attention lots of random dramas etc.

This kind of escalation and the divide and conquer tactics are I believe pretty typical and you can expect more of this. Also more contrived situations where it's a case of choosing MIL or his family.

I really think you should try and revisit therapy or couple therapy.
Or even it's therapy for YOU but the therapist asked your DH to sit in for some sessions???
My DH and I were stuck in a less extreme version of the loop you are in. The therapist was the only one who could get through to him.
When mil would resurface and my DH would take his weekly grievances "DM has done A, wants B, expects me to do C and DW said I should do X y and z" the therapist would tell him I was right most of the time 😂

This current situation is just all so extreme. I don't think you can do nothing your DH needs help even if he doesn't want it

Your DH is going to wake up one day and feel serious regret about the fact he missed huge chunks of his DCs childhood travelling to clean up your Mils mess of the week. He can't take that back or undo it

HoraceGoesBonkers · 24/10/2023 13:51

@Olinguita My sister also had a very disrupted, unstable childhood and I've ended up joining the Stately Homes thread over on relationships because my DM is still alive and still as draining to deal with as ever! I feel angry about it all too then worry about being part of passing all the baggage on through the generations.

Original poster
Olinguita · 24/10/2023 13:08

My goodness, @Timewentfast the similarities between your mum and my MIL are uncanny. I think it's hard for people who haven't been in a situation like this to understand how difficult it is. People like this have no concept of boundaries and will 100% blow up your life if you let them. I remember talking to a counsellor about this once and they were all like " well you need to sit down and have a chat with you MIL and DH about boundaries. Have you tried talking to them?" Like that would work.

I actually wouldn't be totally opposed to an in-law living with us if there was mutual respect, some sense of normal adult boundaries and clear expectations of how we would manage practically and financially when they needed more care than we could reasonably provide ourselves. But this is not the situation we find ourselves in here.

It is destroying my DH. He has gone from an upbeat, sunny, dynamic yet gentle guy to an angry man who is always on a hair trigger and who gets easily overwhelmed by daily life. He has aged about five years and doesn't take care of his appearance any more (he used to be very good looking before FIL passed).

It is sad because MIL clearly had abandonment issues due to some very questionable parenting and a disrupted childhood. But whatever I do to help is only going to end up backfiring on me.

I really hope you have managed to reclaim your life and I hope you are in a better space now. Thanks so much for the long reply, it felt very validating.

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Paperbagsaremine · 24/10/2023 13:08

You don't have to do anything, and nobody can make you. To a much larger extent than you may, at first, think.
Obviously the actions you do (or do not) take will have consequences. But you can decide how likely, and how important, those consequences are.
What do you want?

  • stay in the area
  • live with DH (you sound like you still mainly like him?) and DC
  • have as little hassle from MiL as possible
Sounds like this is what DH would actually enjoy most, putting his messed up guilt etc aside. So I would suggest being very cold blooded - in as diplomatic a way as possible. Don't get mad, Just. Say. No.
HoraceGoesBonkers · 24/10/2023 12:07

Don't let an alcoholic move in with you and particularly your toddler for any length of time! It's a recipe for disaster and there's a good chance you'll end up in a position where you have to ask her to leave in order to protect your child. I wouldn't even let her stay overnight.

Your MIL is claiming you've triggered her drinking this time but unfortunately there will always be a trigger, unless she wants to stop drinking.

Have either of you actually seen how she looks? My sister was an alcoholic and died in her 50s and by that point her body was completely broken - she looked so frail, was thin, had injuries from falling and mobility problems, although had an amazing turn of speed if she was trying to buy or hide wine. Your DH might get a bit of a wake up call if he hasn't seen her for a while.

Are your MIL and DH any more accepting of a third option like a care home or sheltered housing?

Timewentfast · 24/10/2023 11:38

p.s. sorry didn't mean to be so negative about your marriage. I really hope your husband can stand up to her with your support. Support her, yes, but not at the cost of your own lives.

Timewentfast · 24/10/2023 11:29

My goodness OP I have SO much sympathy for you. I found myself in a similar situation after my dad died and I was left with a difficult mother.
(Not asian by the way).

A mixture of personality disorder, very demanding and needy personality, very nasty when does not get her own way, thinks nothing of effect she is having on others. Does not behave even when she has PROMISED to behave. I just don't think she is able to even if she means it when she promises it. Very dysfunctional family growing up. Abusive mother (although nice as pie in public). Happy, happy one minute then screaming at something you have done or not done the next. Guilting, shaming, ridiculing, gaslighting, mocking - you name it and she did it. In public sweet, friendly, did volunteer work (although she would threaten to leave if they did not fuss over her or thank her enough for her volunteering).
Dad had his own problems (depression) and was very much emotionally unavailable and an enabler of mums behaviour. To a degree though he kept her in check only because he was always there and so he was her scapegoat after all the kids left home. Also he did absolutely EVERYTHING for her and her life consisted of floating about, watching tv, socialising.

When dad died (or actually before that when he got sick) my mums behaviour became unbelievable. Despite a HUGE amount of support - think getting housework done, admin done, taken to appointments, washed by daughter, toenails cut by daughter, entertained by daughter taking her out to lunch etc. When daughter tried to have day off she 'had' to phone mum twice a day for a chat or mum couldn't cope being on her own for just one day despite having no responsibilites. Mum a bit frail but still fine mentally. Could walk to shops with help of walker and chat to people, shop etc. Proclaimed she could not use her own microwave or washing machine and had to be 'taught' by daughter.

The point of the post is she got everything done and still continued to behave VERY BADLY. Calling out ambulances because she was lonely on a weekly basis, telling lies to people to create drama and get attention for herself, spending a fortune on clothes and not wearing them. Demanding taken to the doctors then refusing to do what doctor said. In short nothing that we did was enough and never would have been. If you gave in to her she was happy for a short time before something else was the issue. I sense your MIL is exactly the same as my mother (although my mum and dad did not have a happy marriage although my mum tells anyone who will listen how happy they were).

My thoughts and I think you already know this - if she moves in with you, your marriage will end (and the MIL will not be happy living with you anyway and will destroy your husband)

If she does not move in with you - your marriage might end because like me your husband has been conditioned to 'look after her before himself' - a sort of brainwashing when parents make their children responsible for their needs. Your husband is angry and trapped and resentful and taking it out on you as a 'safe target'. He is like a trapped animal unable to get away and lashing out.

For me, I ended up ill, fat, mentally really messed up from trying to 'look after her'. Like your MIL my mum begged to move in with me, promising she would 'behave'. Thankfully I never let her or I would likely be dead now from a heart attack or stroke or in a loony bin (I jest not).
My nightmare only ended when mum ended up in a nursing home - she does not have dementia. She is a bit frail. Despite MASSIVE amounts of support she ended up in a nursing home due to her mental health more than anything. The nursing staff have got her number already. She has only been there a short amount of time and she is pressing her buzzer every half hour during the night because she is lonely and upsetting the other residents crying all the time. She is already on antidepressants but the nursing home have had to put her on something else to stop her behaving like a lunatic. She had the nursing home help her do everything like she was pretending she was much frailer than she actually is. Then one night she wanted to do something and so climbed over the bed rail while the staff member caught her and her jaw just about dropped as she thought my mum could hardly move unaided.

What is the answer for dealing with these mentally ill drama queens. The only way to deal with them is to have nothing to do with them. Any interaction with them will blow up your own life and cause untold distress (my mum abused my dad so much when he was dying in front of his doctor that the doctor had to remove my dad from the home. In hospital my mum continued to try to abuse him by phone so the nurses removed his phone. My dad tried to discharge himself to go home 'to look after her' - he died 48 hours later)

Whatever you do or don't do you will be blamed for her behaviour or anything that goes wrong. Even if you give her a superhuman amount of support it won't be enough.

It sounds like you have already offered her a huge amount of support and solutions for supporting her. Much more than she deserves. Do NOT let her move into your home. I think you now have to stand back and let her self destruct. I think her behaviour is attention seeking to blackmail her son into living with him. You can tell she does not care about the distress she is causing her son or you. It's all HER, HER, HER. Your husband knows you are right and he probably hates himself for not being able to stand up to her.
So I suggest stick to what you have offered her, be firm but supportive to your husband but don't let yourself become his scapegoat.

MASSIVE hugs and support to you. These people all ending up outliving everyone else as everyone else dies from the stress of dealing with them.

Original poster
Olinguita · 24/10/2023 10:01

Hello everyone, thanks very much for all the support a few months back on this thread.
MIL has taken another turn for the worse and went on a drinking binge that lasted several days. During this time she damaged her hand so badly she needed surgery, I don't know what happened, presumably a fall. The reason she fell off the wagon was apparently my fault.
DH announced that she was coming to stay with us for DS's birthday and was staying for an indefinite period of time. However, the timing would have been really bad for me. We were under offer on our 2-bed flat at that time and had just put an offer in on a new home. So there was a good chance that she'd be with us during the packing up and moving and settling in to the new home phase. I put my foot down and said it's not a convenient time to come for a very extended visit. I told DH three weeks maybe, but having an extra adult in the mix for several months who is extremely highly strung and fussy while we are trying to move house would just about push me over the edge. When MIL heard this, she was so upset she started drinking again and sustained this injury. Apparently all this is on me because I said she couldn't come to stay with us. This is not what I said at all. I just said that the visit would have to be time-limited and somewhat on my terms because of the stress and logistical challenges around the house move.

Anyway, the situation has rumbled on. DH hasn't gone to visit her. The sale of our flat fell through anyway so we are staying put for now.

DH keeps on making ominous noises about we will just have to bring MIL to the UK for an indefinite period.

Because her mental health is in such a parlous state and because of her injuries, it is likely she will need a huge amount of care and attention. We both work and have a toddler. I don't know how we will cope. I am all for looking after vulnerable relatives but she is incapacitated through her own fault. She will likely end up demanding so much of DHs time that he won't be able to keep up at his job, and could end up getting into serious trouble. I can see myself burning out keeping it all together.

DH will simply not have a conversation about logistics, dates, money etc. So it's just hanging over my head now. There is no real peace in my home. I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
Merha · 28/05/2023 15:02

@Olinguita I am so pleased that you found the book I recommended helpful. It sounds like things have improved to some degree and I send my very best wishes once again!

Hallmark1234 · 27/05/2023 10:50

You've heard of the term 'give someone an inch and they'll take a mile'?

Please don't entertain allowing her to live with you for even 2 months of the year. From what you've described of your MIL's behaviour in the past, she will totally destroy your home and relationship (already under immense strain) if she even stays for that amount of time, as while you can be sympathetic up to a point, as she's lost her DH, she's shown from her recent behaviour not to be receptive to any help you try to give her and will just go her own way and make your life a nightmare in the process.

By all means help her to find somewhere near where you live and keep separate households, although even that will bring problems I suspect.

midlifecrash · 27/05/2023 10:47

She doesn’t want to stop drinking, she has chosen “unattainable thing” as a barrier - so she can carry on and it’s not her fault (it’s your fault). And yourDH doesn’t want to live with her, but sees anything else as falling short, so can tell himself he is prevented from doing anything (it’s your fault). It’s great that you have managed to pull back and relieve some of the tension. I hope you can maintain a firm stand any time this comes up and counter the blame that is being unjustly projected onto you.

Original poster
Olinguita · 27/05/2023 10:36

Woops ignore the above post, it was a typo! Meant to reply to @MrsMikeDrop to say that yes, she has had opportunities in life. She actually had a brief career in a field that is notoriously competitive and cut throat. It is something extremely niche and she actually has a Wikipedia entry! she considers herself a failure but actually I think her accomplishments in the short time she actually worked are something the whole family can take pride in. However, after marriage she was done with that world and immersed herself in domesticity. Her only friends were FILs friends. I don't think he would have minded her working but she chose not to

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Original poster
Olinguita · 27/05/2023 10:30

@mrs

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Original poster
Olinguita · 27/05/2023 10:28

Just wanted to come back and update you all following your excellent advice 🙏
@Merha I'm about to finish Boundaries by Henry Cloud, which I bought on your recommendation. Life changing. I'm a practicing Christian but somehow I never got the memo about not enabling other people's bad and damaging behaviour. It was actually really healing and useful to see this problem through a Christian lense - the proper Biblical thing to do isn't to just roll over and let MIL do whatever she wants in order to be a good/caring DIL.

To other posters who have told me to back off from offering DH advice or urging him to do something - that's exactly what I've done! I've literally not even mentioned his mum in weeks and the atmosphere in our home has already improved. Maybe the penny is starting to drop that she is behaving badly and shouldn't be enabled to do so.

This thread has really helped me to realise that DH and DC are my priorities and I need to protect them both. MIL's antics have really damaged DH at a time when he is a) grieving and b) had been struggling to adapt to parenthood (he found the baby stage utterly overwhelming and didn't really cope. Now blossoming into a great toddler parent but it's taken 18 months to get here....) I know she is grieving but... How dare she put her son through the ringer like that and imperil has marriage?? Who does that!?

I've experienced a lot of guilt over the situation because of cultural reasons (DH is Asian). I always admired how close Asian families are... HOWEVER I have a lot of friends and colleagues from DH's ethnic background and literally none of them have parents in their 60s and 70s living with them full-time. Long visits and significant financial help, maybe. But the practice of parents moving in to the son's home (and having carte blanche to behave as badly as they like) while still able bodied is dying out, and for good reason. There are ways to support and include elders in family life without letting them bulldoze your nuclear family and dictate your every move.

I'm not against multi generational households but this particular one could seriously mess up my kid, even if MIL does not resume drinking. Sometimes traditions have to change.

@Paperbagsaremine I love your comment by the way!!

OP posts:
Paperbagsaremine · 09/05/2023 15:12

At a minimum the phrase, "I know you're going through a hard time DH, but it is not my fault, don't take it out on me, that's a dick move and you're better than that" might have to be written on the back of your hand.

The single transferable misery turd which Larkin described so eloquently does not HAVE to be part of your life. MiL can be miserable, it's her life. But you don't have to be too, and to a certain extent, neither does DH.

TeaandHobnobs · 09/05/2023 11:11

I’m sorry that your DH doesn’t seem to have got on with therapy previously - like other PPs have said, it sounds like he could really do with some counselling to work through his grief over his DF, and his, in a way, grief over his inability to “fix” this situation with MIL. I wonder if he felt the suggestion of marriage counselling was a sort of criticism of him - I bet my DH would take it that way if I suggested it.
But a good therapist, that he has rapport with, would allow him to explore whatever he needs to, and maybe help him develop some boundaries and strategies to cope with this situations that are outwith his control.

Really hoping you and your DH can find your way through this ❤️

Original poster
Olinguita · 09/05/2023 10:57

She most probably won't drink if she is with us, whether that is short or longer term. She drinks (I believe) to fill a void because she is lonely, and if she is with us she will not be alone, and she can quell those feelings of emptiness by constantly fussing about things in the house, bickering with DH, asking me incessant questions and nagging DH and I about our clothes/diets/state of the house etc as if we are naughty teenagers.

Every time she has visited it has been difficult for me, but DH insists that she is doing nothing wrong and is just "expressing herself" or trying to help.

She is the kind of person that can turn making a simple cup of coffee or slinging some laundry into the washing machine into an opportunity for endless questions and suggestions about how it could be done better or differently. I know it sounds really petty but it really gets to me after a week or so. She never says anything outright nasty but constantly second guesses everything I do. To be fair, she does the same to DH. But the difference is that he is allowed to be annoyed by it, but if I express annoyance then DH blows up.

I could tolerate her for a few weeks but it would massively help if DH could give me at least a bit of prior warning, which he is currently not prepared to do.

@Merha you are correct, it has really done a number on my marriage. We were a very easygoing couple before, but throwing her into the mix is like a bomb going off.

OP posts:
Comeonbarbiebrianharvey · 09/05/2023 10:17

Step back from the situation, let DH deal with it. You've come up with reasonable solutions. She will not stop drinking if she were to move in with you. Does she stop when she visits?

I'm sorry your DH is using you as the excuse, that's disappointing. It sounds like he's in a desperate situation and he's looking for a scapegoat. Not ok, but abusive parents can have a terrible subconscious hold.

I'd reiterate the options you've suggested, I'd be tempted to have her to stay now for a few weeks, if you cant bear it, so DH can promote the options, I'm guessing he will quickly realise he can't live with her, and she is being unreasonable.

Merha · 09/05/2023 10:03

Well done @Olinguita You are doing something enormously difficult. I hope you keep posting. You really need people on your side. It's bound to be causing big cracks in your marriage 💐