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Elderly parents
Original poster

Small rant about lpa and sibling

31 replies

IncessantNameChanger · 19/04/2023 23:07

Just ranting into the void. Asked my sibling to look at lpa forms last month, two weeks ago and last week. The realisation I'm on my own if I go ahead with it is hitting me. My sibling head isn't in this so I'm.hoping I can add them but not have to keep relaying info to them. It looks like my parent will refuse any treatment to extend their quality of life. Sibling is in total denial. They haven't read parents medical letters either. I know that's siblings choice but I do feel hacked off that I'm dyslexic and useless at forms and on my own with it all. My sibling isn't going to any help going forward are they? I absolutely spelt out that I needed help with it and it's always on the to do list.

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TetraSaurus · 23/04/2023 12:42

I think you are making this a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Just do the LPA for health and the one for finance in your name only.

I'm glad you friend helped you. They are extremely easy to do on your own though in case anyone else is wondering. I did them with my parents. We just did it very very slowly and used a lot of post it notes 😅😅😅

If it's at all possible and if your Mum is ok with being asked see if you can get all her passwords and bank details etc etc. I'd also try and get your name added to her bank account as an LPA-finance. I did this with my parents and it made everything so much easier.

The bank was extremely helpful. They need to see a copy of the LPA and then we went in and they sorted out the details. I know have access to the accounts and can do payments etc.

My Dad died and having all his paperwork sorted beforehand plus all the password made everything a million times easier to sort out. I'm so grateful that he helped with this.

My siblings are useless so they arent involved. I don't count on them at all so it takes the emotion out of it. If they do something then that's great but if they don't I don't give it any headspace.

SheilaFentiman · 23/04/2023 12:25

And I would do that for health and for finance. I don’t see the benefit of doing them in sequence.

SheilaFentiman · 23/04/2023 12:23

I think you would be better off being sole attorney if she’s going to dick you around about signing stuff.

Knotaknitter · 23/04/2023 11:45

If there's an attorney named on the form, they have to sign the form. You can't send it in with her name on it and missing her signature. Well you can but they'll send it back as being incomplete.

I know this is all too much but believe me when I say that the alternative is far worse. I strongly suggested that my sister in law sort out finance PoA for her mother (my mother in law) because she was starting to confuse the phone and the tv remote and I thought that the time to be doing it was running out. She said she'd do it, the next year when things had progressed beyond confusion it turned out that she thought the conversation would be too difficult so she'd never even mentioned it to her mother. It was too late to start it then because MIL was no longer capable of understanding the issues.

Today MIL is in a care home. She has a house standing empty that can't be sold, if it needs any repairs no-one can access her money to get someone in. Sister in law has to apply to the court of protection, it's a longer, more expensive process with a lot more form filling.

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 23/04/2023 11:10

I think she will sign it as she thinks she wants to help and be involved. But the reality is that she's too super busy to be involved. She will sign it but I will do all the legwork. She won't ask, so I won't tell her either. She can carry on in denial. At least I'm not going to feel this level of hurt each time I'm.told something and she tells me it's wrong and actually it's all fine. I'm so over people telling me they care and are getting round to caring. It's been three weeks since I sent her the letter from the hospital and she is still getting round to reading them. I only have that offer of help. One day, one day, one day I'm getting round to it. So if I can't persuade mum to sign this health lpa as it's in her best interests then there's no one else to talk her around. My sister had agreed to talk about with her but again she is getting around to it. After two months. Couldn't even ask the question while on the phone to hospital of what's going on. That is fine. But why fuck with hasnt and pretending she is supporting me? Just be honest and say no crack on as your on your own. If she takes forever to sign it, she comes off. I will tell her she has a limit of two weeks to read and sign or I'm sending it off. I'm definitely just doing the health one first and everyone signs, only then doing the financial one.

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MereDintofPandiculation · 23/04/2023 09:18

I'm doing the lpa, I'm not discussing it further with anyone. My sister can sign it or not. if you put her on the form as joint attorney she’ll need to sign it. Maybe have a back up form ready with you as sole attorney if she’s not going to sign?

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 22/04/2023 22:53

Thanks. I have had a mental health crisis over this. Spelt very clearly to sister and husband that I could not do the lpa on my own as I'm dyslexic. Husband fobs me off with yes let's, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow

Sister has a cough, a meeting etc. She is super busy, so important. I have four kids. Three of them have ehcps but of course I'm not busy. I make up that I struggle to read because I'm a snowflake.

Sister added me as nok and told me to phone Monday! Why couldn't she ask while on the phone? Because she doesn't care about mum and she doesn't care about me that's why.

I'm doing the lpa, I'm not discussing it further with anyone. My sister can sign it or not.

If anything ever happens to my dhs family he can go to hell. It's made me hate him. Seeing me worrying over my mum's health, seeing my sister not helping then saying he would help but equally doing nothing. And this is just the first step. It's clear I'm on my own with it. I'm already a registered carer for my son

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TheSilveryPussycat · 22/04/2023 17:10

While she still has mental capacity, your DM can also make an Advance Decision, in which she specifies the circumstances in which she wants medical intervention to be withheld.

Living will (advance decision) – Compassion in Dying

Daffidale · 22/04/2023 17:03

I’m really glad you found someone to help with the forms. I’ve read some of your other posts and it sounds a really hard situation.

There’s only so much help us randoms on the internet can give you. I’ve found both Age UK and Dementia UK helplines really helpful in the past with sorting out my Mum’s care.

Age UK advice line
678 1602 0800 678 1602 ( 8am–7pm) . they are great for practical stuff as well as emotional support for you as a carer

As cognitive decline is a big part of the issues with your Mum I really recommend the Dementia UK Admiral Nurses helpline. As they are trained nurses they can give more help around the medical and care needs side of things.

Dementia UK
Telephone: 0800 888 6678
Monday to Friday 9am-9pm
Saturday, Sunday & Bank Holidays 9am-5pm

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 21/04/2023 17:14

I filled the form out with a friend. I just have to check some things with my mum then I'm going to print the form and then sibling can sign it. There's no way I'm doing jointly. I fill out the form without help then it can be on my terms. If they wont to do it differently or want us to work together then they have to step up now. There has been zero support and zero reading of medical letters and quite honestly having my friend fill in the form because my sibling wouldn't has disappointed me.
People are alway saying that you need to ask for help, strange however when I ask repeatedly from my immediate family to help me help our mother they are too busy. Its not just that they areng interested or too busy to help mum but its me too, For over a month! I'm also waiting on them to phone up about getting me added as nok but I have a plan to bypass them with that too. I won't be asking for more help or opinions anytime soon. We used to be so close too

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MereDintofPandiculation · 21/04/2023 10:34

We have joint and severally. I find it odd but you can act alone or together. That’s what “jointly and severally” means - you can act alone, “severally”, or you can act together “jointly”. If you have “jointly” on the form, rather than “jointly and severally”, you can only act jointly. You can’t act severally.

MereDintofPandiculation · 21/04/2023 10:30

@EmmaEmerald This is what I actually said “You could choose sibling and you to act “jointly and severally” - but that enables them to take a decision on their own that you don’t agree with; jointly- but you’ll have to get their signature on everything no matter how trivial.

You are saying that my conception of “jointly” is wrong on the basis of your experience of “jointly and severally”

If you could act individually under “jointly” there would be mo requirement for “jointly and severally”

MereDintofPandiculation · 21/04/2023 10:25

EmmaEmerald · 20/04/2023 09:15

Mere “but you’ll have to get their signature on everything no matter how trivial; “

that seems to be a common misunderstanding

I have done finance stuff for mum without my sister needing to sign anything. We have joint and severally. I find it odd but you can act alone or together.

OP didn’t you say your DH was helping with the form?

I think you misunderstood what I said. You have “jointly and severally” which is why you can deal with things yourself. I was talking about “jointly”

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 21/04/2023 00:06

Yes it was interesting that sibling is as good as no contact but Nok. They are the eldest, child free and vastly more intelligent than me which I think are all factors.

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EmmaEmerald · 20/04/2023 19:22

I think you might need to let it go

the main concern we had was paying bills if mum became incapacitated

is that an issue for you? Mum hardly spends anything but just her standard utilities would have been an issue if we had no access to her bank. Also, there's an urgent building repair to her home now - neglect, wear and tear, stuff we asked her to fix ages ago, so has become very costly. If that sort of thing crops up when someone doesn't have capacity, money is needed to cover it.

interesting that she put your sibling as NOK.

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 20/04/2023 13:21

Phoned the gp and hospital. Gp was helpful and cleared a lot of things up. Gave me the hospital Drs number which I also phoned. Mum has put sibling as NOK so sibling can either 1) add me as additional NOK or 2) ask all if these questions directly themselves. Let's see what happens in the next week on that front. It might inform my next desision tbh.
I'm going to also write to mum. Give her the gp letter yo give permission to talk to me and another to hand to hospital asking to add me as NOK. Again, mum's actions will influence my desisions.
If sibling does nothing and mum does nothing then I can't do anymore. Can they work me on this step? If not then there's no chance of more sharing the load. Frustrating. Which maybe is a sign to let it go

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SheilaFentiman · 20/04/2023 12:46

The health LPA has a section where the person can put their wishes about end of life care (eg make comfortable rather than feeding tubes or whatever)

I think you have to give up on your sibling taking part, sadly.

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 20/04/2023 11:14

SophiaSW1 · 20/04/2023 09:21

It's up to your mum who she wants as attorneys (subject to them agreeing to act as one). What has she said about it?

Mum has agreed to it. She might change her mind when it comes to signing. I asked sibling to talk about with mum too. Sibling agreed to but never did. However if mum does refuse to sign it or changes her mind then that's where I will leave it. My sibling could try to then talk to mum but in my mind I'd have done all I could to help. Mum is also in denial but I dint have the mental energy or capacity if she's not on board that her life is changing. I have 4 kids, two go to sen schools so I'm happy to offer help where it's needed or wanted. Absolutely not martyring myself for any adult while they have capacity to choose badly. That's absolutely mums right to ignore medical letters and refuse treatment but I can't watch without trying to help her first.

OP posts:
SophiaSW1 · 20/04/2023 09:21

It's up to your mum who she wants as attorneys (subject to them agreeing to act as one). What has she said about it?

mrsbyers · 20/04/2023 09:18

The guidance on how to complete the form is all on Gov website so really no need to pay a solicitor , the tricky part is the order of signing but again this is all explained - I hope you manage to get it in place

EmmaEmerald · 20/04/2023 09:15

Mere “but you’ll have to get their signature on everything no matter how trivial; “

that seems to be a common misunderstanding

I have done finance stuff for mum without my sister needing to sign anything. We have joint and severally. I find it odd but you can act alone or together.

OP didn’t you say your DH was helping with the form?

MereDintofPandiculation · 20/04/2023 09:10

It sounds as if sibling hasn’t understood that you can’t start thinking about LPA when mum has begun losing competence if you haven’t already laid the groundwork by doing the paperwork and getting it registered by OPG.

Which? magazine runs a “check your LPA” service for about £100 per LPA - cheaper than solicitor.

You could choose sibling and you to act “jointly and severally” - but that enables them to take a decision on their own that you don’t agree with; jointly- but you’ll have to get their signature on everything no matter how trivial; or you could set them up as replacement attorney if you couldn’t act. All of these require her signature on the forms

EmmaEmerald · 20/04/2023 09:10

Hi again OP

re the financial LPA it will be easier if it’s just you.

re health and welfare, we have it but we dithered a bit because mum felt it would be better for us if the medics made the decisions. Then we realised they might push her to stay alive with no quality of life, so now we have it.

but if you’d rather medics made decisions, then maybe don’t worry about the health and welfare one?

if it’s any consolation, this isn’t necessarily easier with an active sibling. You might not agree.

ultimately, it’s a bloody awful responsibility to have.

Imguessing you’d like a hug so offering one xx

SheilaFentiman · 20/04/2023 09:05

Will your mum actually sign the form?

Original poster
IncessantNameChanger · 20/04/2023 08:59

I can't really offord a solicitor to do it. In the ideal world my sibling would be fully engaged and help me as 1 they don't have learning difficulties so less likely to FU the form. 2 works in finance! Sibling has said yes lpa is a good ide, yes wants to do it but when? Doesn't seem to belive me that mum has degenerative brain condition or doesn't care. No amount of sitting down to talk or texting is getting them to read things.

I want my sibling doing this with me. What I dont want is them being disengaged but then speaking out when mums made her desisions. Mum is talking about refusing a test, won't talk either about consequences of not having tests which suggests to me she doesn't want to know, let nature take its course. So example if mum was deep in dementia and refusing to eat I would say not to force food. What if then my sibling wakes up and decides yes tube feed mum? Sibling is happy in denial. I don't get that luxury. It's not even like sibling trusts me to do a better or good job.

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